Why has it almost Become Impossible to Converse with and Enjoy Those Who Differ?

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Go consider: selection bias, observational bias, and confirmation bias.

1) selection bias (esp. here on A2K): Only people who choose/find this website visit. Only those who choose to post their opinions do so.
2) observational bias: you only observe that which you're able to observe. You did not, for example, observe my family at Christmas, or our New Years Eve party, where plenty of people got along just fine.
3) confirmation bias: you probably don't notice all of the interactions where people get along.

I also think that the people who DO get along simply aren't as noticeable (might be considered boring) and probably don't post as much because they simply aren't willing to argue intractable positions.

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

DrewDad wrote:

3) confirmation bias: you probably don't notice all of the interactions where people get along.

I also think that the people who DO get along simply aren't as noticeable (might be considered boring) and probably don't post as much because they simply aren't willing to argue intractable positions.

or people aren't reading the getting-along threads. There is a lot of getting-along going on in weirdly unexpected places. The boredom thread recently had a great discussion of puzzles among people who would tear each other's ears off on political threads.

The top volume poster at A2K (Dutchy) has political views that many of us don't agree with - but we still adore him and get along tremendously - and wish him incredible good results with his upcoming surgery.

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@Kolyo,

Quote:

I'd like to reiterate what I said earlier about the growing gap between rich and poor being the source of incivility. It's not that the lack of some cosmic father figure allows us to behave barbarously. It's that there's more to gain from behaving dishonestly in life and self-interestedly and self-righteously in argument.

the separation is recent, and it is the result of what we are talking about here, not the cause of it. bad education plays into this as only an idiot would purposefully corrupt the political system to drive the greed of a few, or would give so little care to the common good that they would do as little as they could towards it, which is where we are. the long repub efforts to defund the public sector is all about this, as is everybody's willingness to close our eyes to our nations refusal to invest in infrastructure or put in place a quality public education system.....just to name a few examples. and what about America's willingness to tolerate the pure idiotic bullshit that Washington spreads around in place of getting the work done? that does not happen unless the masses are prone to think in us vs them rather than pursuing the greater good.

I dont see how ebeth or anyone else can argue that there is plenty of good will and working together.....THE WORK IS NOT GETTING DONE! All we see are lots of pissy people arguing with each other and refusing to work together. usually there is a long winded excuse for not working with others using big words, and somewhere in the screed is the assertion that the other guy is the personification of evil, which should be our hint that we are being fed BS.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

the separation is recent, and it is the result of what we are talking about here, not the cause of it. bad education plays into this as only an idiot would purposefully corrupt the political system to drive the greed of a few, or would give so little care to the common good that they would do as little as they could towards it, which is where we are.

I agree this has gotten much worse in recent years. I think you can go back to a guy named Lee Atwater, a political operative that figured out you could be a lot more successful making the other guy look bad than trying to sell yourself. The tools to do that mudslinging also became readily available. I offer Fox News, but there are certainly many more outlets. As for the greed part of it, you only have to look at the attitude toward the 47% to see their point of view. Not only Romney, but Jim DeMint and many others see the poor as simply a drain on society rather than other humans that need help. It's their own fault after all. Why invest in education? 'They' just don't want to work. I think that is is greed and short sightedness to a large degree. Their view of 'common good' only includes folks they see as in their own group. You are correct about one part of the lack of religion in political views. What happened to Jesus' point about 'hurting those least among us' ?

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@IRFRANK,

Politicans mine from what is available but they don't create it. Both sides understand what I am talking about....we saw Bill Clinton for instance using identity politics to play up our differences and to set one group up against others. It worked.

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There's a perfect example of why some people can't get along. They insist on painting anyone with whom they disagree in the worst possible light, imputing to them evil intentions.

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@IRFRANK,

I think you can go back MUCH further than Atwater, though he did it more successfully than most in recent history. Aaron Burr and others in the beginnings of American politics went to guns over gossip about wives, etc.

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@Lash,

That's certainly true. It's not such a new thing. But the quantity and volume have certainly gone up.

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@Lash,

Tom Jefferson has always been my favorite of backbiting political dirty pool.
He was quite a dirtbag in my book

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Tom Jefferson has always been my favorite of backbiting political dirty pool.
He was quite a dirtbag in my book

The truth is it was probably much worse in those days. It was probably much easier to get away with the lies.

A very successful dirtbag.

There was only one person in history that was perfect and look what we humans did to him.

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@IRFRANK,

IRFRANK wrote:

The truth is it was probably much worse in those days. It was probably much easier to get away with the lies.

I was watching a film biography of Alexander Hamilton a few weeks ago, and according to that film a politician would often start rumors his opponent had died. Without the blanket media coverage you have now, it was tough to disprove rumors like that.

1 Reply

@Kolyo,

Quote:

I was watching a film biography of Alexander Hamilton a few weeks ago, and according to that film a politician would often start rumors his opponent had died. Without the blanket media coverage you have now, it was tough to disprove rumors like that.

So much for the high moral fiber of our forefathers.

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@IRFRANK,

Quote:

There was only one person in history that was perfect and look what we humans did to him.

Hehe

Hehehehehe . . . .

Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

You talkin' about your boy Jesus? Leaving aside that we don't have any reliable evidence that he actually existed, that's a real stretcher. Perfect, huh? Such as when he blasted the fig tree for not having any figs for, even though figs weren't in season. Or how about that poor, guiltless swineherd in Gadara, who saw Jesus drive devils into his herd, who then precipitated themselves into Lake Tiberius. The clincher, though, is that he supported the law, saying that not one jot or tittle would change until heaven and earth pass away (In the King James version: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.) You know, the law? Deuteronomy, Leviticus--all of the Pentateuch. If you children give you any back talk, haul their asses out and execute 'em. If you wife screws the neighbor, execute her sorry ass. If you tine out there's a gay boy living down the street, get a mob together, then haul his ass out and execute him.

Doesn't sound too goddamned perfect to me.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Wow Set, your criticism knows no bounds.

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@farmerman,

Sorta redefined hypocrisy, that Tom. But, he had so many competitors.

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There are some posters with opinions who will go on and on and on and on in a repetitive manner about them, as if nothing had been said in response before, and posters who disagree who will go on and on and on and on and on refuting them.

Which is one thing, beyond boring in itself, but tends to bring the refuters to become insulting (for good reason, from their views).
This stuff kills threads that originally interested other posters, who left,
and is not conversation - it's ritual.

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@IRFRANK,

That's pretty silly. I presented criticisms of one (putative) man in history. Do you mean to suggest that that is someone who must never be criticized? Not everyone thinks of him as a god, either figuratively or literally.

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@Lash,

I read someone once who commented that he had been surprised by the degree of freedom of the press in the United States (it was not common anywhere else in the world in the early 19th century). He then said that newspapers conducted their reporting "in a shriek." I liked that one.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

There are some posters with opinions who will go on and on and on and on in a repetitive manner about them, as if nothing had been said in response before, and posters who disagree who will go on and on and on and on and on refuting them.

Which is one thing, beyond boring in itself, but tends to bring the refuters to become insulting (for good reason, from their views).
This stuff kills threads that originally interested other posters, who left,
and is not conversation - it's ritual.

this is not a deal killer for me, and I think some others around here. Conversation by definition requires both a speaker and a listener, but if no one is willing to listen that does not mean that truth should not be spoken. I have concluded that it is my duty to the collective to speak truth regardless of the choices in listening made by my peers. I have thus done what I could to help, what ever negative things might happen as a result of the ignoring of truth is then not my fault.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Quote:
Re: ossobuco (Post 5227766)
ossobuco wrote:

There are some posters with opinions who will go on and on and on and on in a repetitive manner about them, as if nothing had been said in response before, and posters who disagree who will go on and on and on and on and on refuting them.

Which is one thing, beyond boring in itself, but tends to bring the refuters to become insulting (for good reason, from their views).
This stuff kills threads that originally interested other posters, who left,
and is not conversation - it's ritual.

this is not a deal killer for me, and I think some others around here. Conversation by definition requires both a speaker and a listener, but if no one is willing to listen that does not mean that truth should not be spoken. I have concluded that it is my duty to the collective to speak truth regardless of the choices in listening made by my peers. I have thus done what I could to help, what ever negative things might happen as a result of the ignoring of truth is then not my fault.

Sounds very reasonable to me, Hawk.

There are some, however, who will come into discussions and claim that the participants are being repetitive and boring...rather than simply ignoring whatever it is they consider repetitive and boring. I imagine some people consider the people who regularly intrude in discussions and claim they are repetitive and boring...as being repetitive and boring.

1 Reply

Why has it almost Become Impossible to Converse with and Enjoy Those Who Differ?

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