Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:

Why do you think Americans are more likely to shoot one another than citizens of all other developed nations (not to mention Yemen) ? If there were more guns, the NRA says, we'd be safer, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Perhaps we should try to reducing the availability of guns for about the next one hundred years and see how we do. Yes?

Joe(Please, gunowners, stop shooting people)Nation

Bill's response:

Quote:

Once more the murder rate in the US is now at a 50 years low and near the bottom of the range of the scale for the last 100 years.

And the tools to murder others that are used is kind of beside the point as dead is dead.

And people wonder why my "Disconnect" alarm went off.

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@Joe Nation,

Did you know Joe that Mark Knofler's song Monteleone is made up from the sort of things you have in brackets which the guitar maker used to sign off his e-mails to Knofler when making an instrument for him.

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@BillRM,

Dead is dead but when it comes to murder....

guns kill 100 times as many people as fire
guns kill 5 times as many people as knives
guns kill 15 times as many people as baseball bats, hammers and other blunt objects
guns kill 12 times as many people as feet and fists.

I find it interesting that guns make up less than 30% of assaults but more than 67% of murders. That tells me that guns are more deadly than any other weapon used in an assault.

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It is well know in real politics that to get people to do what you want them to do is best achieved not by persuasion or coercion but by creating circumstances which will make them want to do it. Leadership consists of providing the circumstances.

That is what the NRA and its defenders are doing. All their talk of death and danger and defence cannot but motivate people to get a gun.

Every excuse a poster provides for a defender of gun rights to run the mantra of death and danger and defence sells more guns.

That's why there are few responses to my main points and plenty to those of others who provide such opportunities.

The idea of the gun as a compensation for various forms of inadequacy is likely to put people off buying guns.

"Get your man-card back" does not appeal to a man who hasn't lost it.

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@parados,

But as Bill will point out...we are killing less than we used to. We many still be killing a lot more than anyone else when compared to everyone else...

...but if you compare us with us just a few years ago, we look...

...well, we still look like ****, but ya know!

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@parados,

An smoking killed over 400,000 a year and second hand smoking killed around 30,000 a year and an alcohol related car crashes killed around 16,000 a year with other alcohol deaths resulting in 80,000 deaths and so on.

So why attack guns deaths that are one hell of a lot lower then many others causes of deaths in this society?

Let return and try alcohol prohibition once more and throw in tobacco.

Both would not work but would work at least as well as going after 300 millions guns and the 100 millions plus guns owners that are not going to obey any unconstitutional attempts to disarmed them

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@BillRM,

Funny thing is there are no murders by cigarettes or any tobacco product in the numbers. While alcohol was involved in a lot of the murders, alcohol wasn't the weapon used.

Amazing how you jump away from murder weapons when we are talking specifically about murder.

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@parados,

Quote:

Funny thing is there are no murders by cigarettes or any tobacco product in the numbers. While alcohol was involved in a lot of the murders, alcohol wasn't the weapon used.

Odd how many children had been killed due to adults smoking around them over the decades? Hundreds of thousands from the figure of 30,000 overall second hand smoking deaths a year seem likely.

As I already stated dead is dead and going after firearms due to such killings as happen at Newstown where 20 or so children have their lives ended is justify but hundreds of thousands of children killed over the decades due to second hand smoke is not a concern to you.

Sorry but those deaths at Newtown are being used by those as an excused to try to disarmed the American citizens and unlike the UK it not going to happen.

The Murder rate is at a fifty years low and trying to set up the conditions to produce ten thousands Wacos around the nation is not going to lower that rate any.

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@BillRM,

Quick... look over there!!!!

Bill it appears want to change the subject from guns and their use in murders.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

The Murder rate is at a fifty years low and trying to set up the conditions to produce ten thousands Wacos around the nation is not going to lower that rate any.

There are 10,000 religious compounds where the cult members are making illegal automatic weapons?

Oh.. this is just Bill making outlandish statements because he thinks it makes his argument stronger. Carry on Bill.

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@parados,

It the government try to illegally disregard the constitution and begin a mass seizure of firearms there will exist a state of war between the illegal government and a large fraction of the population that will produce Waco like stand offs and blow backs similar to the Oklahoma City bombing on a mass scale, in my opinion.

The death rate due to firearms will no longer be at a fifty year low.

Quote:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

The dead rate due to firearms will no longer be at a fifty year low.

So you are admitting that more guns equals more murders?

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@parados,

Quote:

o you are admitting that more guns equals more murders?

Quote:

?????????

Illegal and unconstitutional government forcing a civil war will produce an increase in gun deaths and other form of deaths also.

However an illegal government is what would set it off not the numbers of guns in the hands of citizens.

Once more with 300 millions guns plus we are at a 50 years low concerning the murder rate in this nation.

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Kalifornia's Nuts & Flakes are not to be outdone by New York.

It's no wonder that those that have the ability to move out of
and away from the left coast are doing so as fast as they can.

Possession of hollow point bullets and similar assault bullets a felony.

Must register and report ammo purchases. Only purchase max 500 rounds.

10 round magazine limit ALL magazines must be fixed to the gun (can not be removed without the use of a tool)

100% prohibition of all magazines greater than 10 rounds. All previous grandfathered magazines become illegal. Felony if you keep one.

Changing definition of shotgun revolving cylinder — Basically only single shot shotguns will remain legal.

Bullet Buttons will become illegal — All AR and AK style rifles that are currently equipped with them will be designated Assault Weapons. Felony to possess.

All gun owners now must be licensed like drivers.

All gun owners must carry gun liability insurance.

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Yep, all of 'em pretty sound proposals.

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H2O says:

Quote:

It's no wonder that those that have the ability to move out of
and away from the left coast are doing so as fast as they can

California has taken a page from the Mitt Romney scrapbook. They've figured out a way to get some of their major looney-tunes to self-deport themselves and fob them off on Texas.

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http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/hol_mwH_QwN1ciqOfZeGNQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzA1O2NyPTE7Y3c9NDUwO2R4PTA7ZHk9MDtmaT11bGNyb3A7aD0zMDU7cT04NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2013-01-19T215037Z_1_CBRE90I1OOI00_RTROPTP_2_USA-GUNS.JPG

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http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2013/02/08/firearms-deaths-1993-2009_s640x480.jpg?b98e9b9b0f373319d257b8531b01413649704d51

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Obama's call for universal background checks and categorical gun ban priorities are unfocused,
... his one-size-fits-all so-called 'solutions' will likely have little if any impact on gun deaths.

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@H2O MAN,

From the same source as quoted above (Center for Disease Control. Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related)

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Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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