Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@OmSigDAVID,

you forgot to add the obnoxious red type to your post dave...

glad to see you still have no sense of reality or compassion.

please carry on.

(elsewhere)

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@oralloy,

Quote:

It's just that so often when there is a stark distinction between good and evil, you always seem to be siding with evil.

So when someone dissents with you about how you perceive the world should be (right-wing NRA-er) that they're automatically assumed to be evil. Ever hear about cognitive dissonance?

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Humm…interesting reasoning, oralloly.

At one point in our history, people “plotted” to consider blacks as humans…not subject to slavery. At one point in our history, people “plotted” to give women the right to vote.

Are you saying it is reasonable to characterize those people as “hating our freedom and plotting to assault the Constitution?”

No. Those people were plotting in favor of freedom. And their plotting did not involve trying to violate people's Constitutional rights.

Frank Apisa wrote:

By the way…since you actually said: " The left hates America’s freedom even more than Osama bin Laden did”…don’t you think you ought to offer your “reasoning” for making that statement…why you assert it has to be the truth and not hyperbole?

I thought I did offer it.

American freedom includes the Constitutional right to own assault weapons. The Democrats are trying to abolish that freedom by violating that right.

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@firefly,

...

Quote:

and we have no idea whether he was in any type of treatment or on any medication.

If you take the time to read the link and the information provided (60 Mins interviewer Scott Pelley with Mark and Louise Tambascio), there IS a clear indication from these 2 friends of the mother, Nancy, that she referred specifically to Adam's illness as Asperger's Syndrome Mark Tambascio and (most importantly) that he was on meds.

Autopsy will tell the public which meds and the possible hallucinatory effects these could have.

At the risk of being tedious, if these proved to be SSRI and SNRI, some of these meds have been banned in UK for the reasons mentioned (potential hullicinatory effects and psychosis).

Article about SSNI/ SNRI meds
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/171/1/23.1.full.pdf

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

So when someone dissents with you about how you perceive the world should be (right-wing NRA-er) that they're automatically assumed to be evil.

In this case, for people who want to violate the Constitution I think I'd rather use the term "Freedom Hater" as opposed to "evil". It's more accurate I think. Plus it associates the gun control movement with al-Qa'ida.

But I remember in the Amanda Knox thread you seemed to have no objection to scumbags directing horrifically cruel posts towards the innocent victims of an atrocity, but the moment I defended the innocent and gave the scumbags some of their own medicine, you seemed to think I was somehow out of bounds. That was an area where good verses evil was more clear cut.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

parados wrote:
Clearly some restrictions do apply to rights in the Constitution.

Yes. But not restrictions that cannot meet the standard of scrutiny being applied.

With all respect, I dissent.
On the Aristotelian Square of Logical Opposition,
the 2A is an "E" proposition; a universal negative proposition:
". . . shall not be infringed"; no exceptions.

However, judging from obiter dicta in HELLER,
it looks like the USSC will make exceptions, anyway.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Lives of children overrides what you believe to be "shall not be infringed."

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@oralloy,

I'm bowing out of such discussions with you as I find your objectivity questionable towards those with whom you disagree. It's cloudy and inaccurate at best.

However, I wish you a good day.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Lives of children overrides what you believe to be "shall not be infringed."

No.
The occurrence of tragedy (like the Reichstag fire)
does not confer ADDITIONAL political power upon government.
If government oversteps its granted authority,
then government becomes a vigilante mob.

David

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@firefly,

I have a Cousin who has Autism and I am hoping people do not view this as a mental illness, because it is my understanding that they are Genius's, very smart people, just locked away and generally very calm people. There has to be something else in this. Yet, like any person, they can break and it does not stem from this rather, something that happened in their life.

The mere fact that he chose little children was not genius, it was dispicable, heart renching.

It is my understanding that, Nancy Jean Lanza sued Peter John Lanza for divorce on November 24, 2008 -- three days before Thanksgiving, Connecticut court records show. It seems that Nancy had a passion for collecting guns and possibly in her remote farm, taught the children (two boys) how to aim and fire those guns. It seems that she fought with the school and had him home schooled.

She visited her neighbours playing parlor games frequently.

He, played video games frequently and wore Khaki pants, carried a lap top case around with him, was highly intelligent with computers...

His Father, recently re-married, and it is just after Thanksgiving, 4 years later.

More than likely he blammed his Mother as she was the one that divorced his Father. More than likely she taught them to use guns and allowed him to play such video games and dress in a military style fashion around the house and more than likely, as it is just past Thanks giving he snapped. And, hated the school for taking "his childhood away" by making him even more a loner and by making him feel that he did not deserve school, friends.

But, that does not give him the right, to target "babies" just because that school rejected him.

And, I think If this is correct, his Mother was extremely in the wrong, teaching them about guns. It is my understanding you have to be 21 before you can even handle a gun. It was suggested that she taught them from 17.

I'm deeply saddened about all of this.. And, I can't help but also feel that his Father, may have left him as well.. Favouring his new life, new wife and that triggered this as he just recently over Thanks giving, 4 years later, re-married.

On another note, and I know this is about the children, but, if he loved his Mother deeply and they were the only two that lived together, the only person he really saw and he was distrubed he could have taken her life, to be with him, knowing he would take his.

I think parents MUST be more responsible and not teach "children" how to use guns...Should not leave guns where "children" can access them, and I call him a child because I was still a "child" at 16. We are not Adults at that age. If he didn't know how to use them, didn't know how to reach time or was unable to, he would not have been able to kill so many beautiful litte beings that now have no chance to know what life is about...

And, if his Father, had little contact the past 4 years, then that is sad too. Because marriages break down, but your committment to your children and love shouldn't. No amount of money he supposidly paid his ex-wife out so she did not have to work any more is worth anything, if your child suffers emotionally and has no one...and no where to turn.

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@FOUND SOUL,

I worked for two organizations that provides services to people with autism. It's not a mental illness by any definition of that word. Autism rates have been increasing according to this NYT's article.

Quote:

Diagnoses of Autism on the Rise, Report Says
By BENEDICT CAREY
Published: March 29, 2012 309 Comments

The likelihood of a child’s being given a diagnosis of autism, Asperger syndrome or a related disorder increased more than 20 percent from 2006 to 2008, according to a report released on Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Readers’ Comments
"If children's brains are suddenly becoming vulnerable to such a devastating pathology, we have a serious problem on our hands."
BBB, New York, NY
Read Full Comment »
The new report estimates that in 2008 one child in 88 received one of these diagnoses, known as autism spectrum disorders, by age 8, compared with about one in 110 two years earlier. The estimated rate in 2002 was about one in 155.

The frequency of autism spectrum diagnoses has been increasing for decades, but researchers cannot agree on whether the trend is a result of heightened awareness, an expanding definition of the spectrum, an actual increase in incidence or some combination of those factors. Diagnosing the condition is not an exact science. Children “on the spectrum” vary widely in their abilities and symptoms, from mute and intellectually limited at one extreme to socially awkward at the other.

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@FOUND SOUL,

If I had a child, I'd deem it my moral duty
to help keep him or her alive by teaching him or her about guns,
the same as teaching him to swim (against drowning).

I will not address autism, for lack of information.

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@OmSigDAVID,

thank you.

maybe there is a god...

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@oralloy,

So, you are saying that the size of the clip is merely cosmetic? That is the only way your rational basis review argument works with clip size. So in other words you are going to argue that a single shot weapon performs exactly the same as one that holds 100 shots. That doesn't seem very rational, does it?

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@FOUND SOUL,

The shooter's mental state, and the causes of it, are not the issue here FS. Those things are going to happen. It is the easy access to cheap and deadly weaponry that is the issue.

That is what makes the Government responsible in the last analysis. That is the factor it can do something about. If it is unwilling for political reasons then it accepts the consequences and its tears are crocodile tears. If it is unable it is hardly a government.

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

I think parents MUST be more responsible...Should not leave guns where "children" can access them,

Yes that would certainly be a good start. Sadly even our leaders aren't that bright.

New York State's Junior Senator (a Democrat) admitted having RIFLES under her bed and she has 2 young children.
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/gillibrand-removes-guns-from-under-bed-1.887787

She moved them at one point for 'security reasons'. No, not for the safety of her children but concern that people now knew where they were. Now we see her prancing around with Senior Sen. Chuck Schumer telling how we must have controls.
(I believe absolutely NOTHING out of her self serving mouth)

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

And, I think If this is correct, his Mother was extremely in the wrong, teaching them about guns. It is my understanding you have to be 21 before you can even handle a gun. It was suggested that she taught them from 17.

LOL you are an adult at 18 and you can be a damn Marine if you wish to so where do you get this ****?

Second most people IE millions of people growing up in firearms owning household are taught to shot at far younger ages then 17 under their parents supervision.

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@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

And, I think If this is correct, his Mother was extremely in the wrong, teaching them about guns. It is my understanding you have to be 21 before you can even handle a gun. It was suggested that she taught them from 17.

The Boyscout and the NRA have a join program of firearm training as a matter of fact for young people.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Quote:

Sort of like, we don't see clergy at gun ranges.

?????????????????

Where did you get that bit of information?

Never knew there was a hunting and firearm ban for religion leaders of any Christian mainspring faith this is a new idea to me.

Care to link to such a claim?

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
And, I think If this is correct, his Mother was extremely in the wrong, teaching them about guns. It is my understanding you have to be 21 before you can even handle a gun. It was suggested that she taught them from 17.

The Boyscout and the NRA have a join program of firearm training as a matter of fact for young people.

There's an age limit on purchasing guns but parent/child hunting and target practice is quite common. Most of the boys I grew up with were hunting/shooting by the time they were 10-12.

2 Replies

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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