@McTag,
McTag wrote:I'm looking forward to the happy day when a sizeable majority of Americans realise how damaging it is to hang onto policies which were designed for two and a half centuries in the past, and which only serve to confuse the feeble-minded nowadays.
And then act on the realisation.
America will never decide that freedom belongs in the past, and will never join you in serfdom.
Look. You don't like freedom. And you have exactly what you want. Be happy in that.
But accept that we like freedom. We
won't be giving ours up.
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:Hadn't realised this was happening
Faking waves: how the NRA and pro-gun Americans abuse Australian crime stats
https://theconversation.edu.au/faking-waves-how-the-nra-and-pro-gun-americans-abuse-australian-crime-stats-11678
A point by point debunking of the myths and manipulation by the NRA of Australian statistics.
What I found most disturbing was the expat American commenter who mentioned that some of his right wing friends in the states circulate stuff about how much more dangerous Australia is post- gun reform. Utter bollocks.
We truly live in the age of disinformation.
I'm not familiar with the claims that this site purports to be debunking, but it is a fact that when Australia repealed their freedom, their robbery rates (both armed robbery and unarmed) shot sky high, and they stayed sky high for five straight years.
I note that the site does not seem to have a very firm grasp on logic.
I am not familiar with Australia's stats on sexual assault, but that site claims that a huge increase in sexual assaults (they don't seem to dispute that there was a huge increase) could not have been related to the gun ban because those sexual assaults were not perpetrated with a gun.
That totally sidesteps the fact that Australia made it impossible for women to use a gun to defend themselves with.
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:It's happened on this thread at least three or four times. The truth appears to be irrelevant.
The truth is when Australia repealed freedom and took away their citizens' right to have guns for self defense, their armed robbery rates shot sky high for five straight years (unarmed robbery as well).
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
It's happened on this thread at least three or four times. The truth appears to be irrelevant.
1960's moral relativism gone malignant....somewhere along the way many decided that they have the right and ability to make reality what ever they want it to be. Micheal Jackson was only one of many to decide that Peter Pan is right.
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
"Right" about what ?
believe in your fantasyland long enough and hard enough and it becomes real.
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
"Right" about what ?
believe in your fantasyland long enough and hard enough and it becomes real.
U can add a column of numbers incorrectly
and u will define its result as
REALITY
until u identify the error.
David
The Hitler gun control lie
Gun rights activists who cite the dictator as a reason against gun control have their history dangerously wrong
BY ALEX SEITZ-WALD
Source
Kind of interesting reading. Jon Stewart touched on this argument too, showing a clip of a Jewish guy making the claim that things might have been different if the jews had guns. Seemed appalling simplistic to me. Part of Stewart's response was that France had guns, and soldiers etc - that didn't stop Hitler.
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:
The Hitler gun control lie
Those laws ae actuallyonline. And during the Weimar Republic, Germany actually had had tougher gun laws than under the Nazis. I'd posted the sources already way back ...
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:BILL cmon, you are the one who hs just recently posting about HOW A KNIFE IS A BETTER WEAPON THAN A GUN, or "MORE KILLINGS OF KIDS HAVE HAPPENED BY EXPLOSIVES".
You should really takesome of your own advice and stick to the topic and quit the "Billybranches" of meandering tangents
It was hardly a tangent. The fact that gun availability has very little impact on homicide rates is entirely on topic.
@parados,
parados wrote:BillRM wrote:parados wrote:If mass killers are so bright why do they choose guns over other "more effective" ways of killing?
That a good question of course not all of them do so, but maybe the ones who do are listening to CNN and such just like most of us do here.
You know the media claims that a light rifle is a battlefield killing machine that should not be in civilians hands.
Anyway it is a good thing they do listen as even a change to a riot shotgun would likely push up the average body count.
I guess that explains why shotguns are the gun of choice of deer hunters.
Gun of choice??? I'd suspect most would choose a deer rifle over a shotgun if given a choice.
But yes. As noted by BillRM, a blast from a shotgun is likely to be more deadly than a round of .223 when used against human/deer sized animals (presuming you're firing slugs or buckshot of course).
That is why some deer hunters do use a shotgun, while no deer hunters use a .223.
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:You do realize Bill that the M-16 (AR-15) was designed to nothing more than a machine to kill humans? It wasn't made to be good for anything else.
Nonsense. There are plenty of AR-15s that were made to be good for varmint hunting.
And while the AR-15 is a bit light for self defense or deer hunting, there have been plenty of AR-10s that were made to be good for those two purposes.
@spendius,
spendius wrote:oralloy wrote:It's an ideal response for a ridiculously false assertion.
It is not a false assertion that guns don't quickly become unserviceable. I agree there is a certain "catwalk"aspect in relation to fashion accessories but I'm content to leave that to models.
But the assault weapons, rifles, handguns and whatnot will be just as serviceable in 50 years as they are now. With the loving care often expended on them probably 200 years. More.
Which means that gun sales can only grow by expanding the demand beyond that which is already satisfied and a high level generation of fear is the most prominent motivator for such an objective, without which the gun manufacturing industry shrinks to a cottage industry once the short term spike to cater for armed guards in 100, 000 schools is over, and a lot of murders and gun attacks are the only way to induce such fear and anxiety.
I cannot imagine investors in the gun industry not yearning for every home and office and school and railway carriage (that's enough locations spendi--they've got the picture. Ed.) to be bristling with defensive weapons despite how often they may turnover into offensive weapons.
It is true that guns are durable goods, but there are other ways to get people to buy guns. The main way they do it is to try to develop guns that do a better job of filling the various niches that guns occupy. For instance, just this month Winchester came up with a .17 rimfire varmint round with roughly the same velocity as the .223 (which they hope to displace due to the lower cost of their rimfires).
And keep in mind that people who like to own guns, like to own lots of guns.
spendius wrote:What ridiculously false assertion are you referring to?
I was referring to the notion that the gun industry is encouraging a high murder rate.
spendius wrote:Mr LaPierre was almost slavering at the prospect of armed guards in schools and other places. And with production cost being about a tenth of retail prices one might understand him.
He's not a gun manufacturer.
I doubt the production costs are as cheap as you think, unless they are making a pretty crude gun.
spendius wrote:oralloy wrote:Looks pretty straightforward to me.
Why would anybody who has not been deprived of their wits spend a load of dough on "being prepared" if they are not frightened?
Because they want to be prepared.
Because they like guns in general, as well as wanting to be prepared.
Guns don't necessarily have to be expensive, by the way.
spendius wrote:oralloy wrote:There are a variety of shells that could be characterized as an average shell, and many of them have wide differences in the amount of powder they hold.
What a soft evasion. Let's take the minimum. We can increase the buying power of terrorists to take account of half an ounce. Or even less. The American motorist channels money to them at a high rate of knots.
The minimum would probably be the .22LR. Or the .17HM2 (which is the .22LR necked down to .17).
Not quite sure how much powder those two use, but here is reload data for the .17 Hornet:
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w17horn.html
@hingehead,
"the useful website GunCite"
Awesomeness.
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
"the useful website GunCite"
Awesomeness.
Fordham Law Review? German Federal Archive? Print editions in libraries?
@oralloy,
Quote:America will never decide that freedom belongs in the past, and will never join you in serfdom.
Look. You don't like freedom. And you have exactly what you want. Be happy in that.
But accept that we like freedom. We won't be giving ours up.
"Freedom"? In the Land of the Free?
It's worth examining this more closely, to help Oralloy understand the bind he is in.
I'm free of the concern that if I have a full and frank exchange of views with a stranger, I won't risk getting a bullet in the guts.
I'm free of the sight of policeman attending incidents with drawn guns.
I'm free of the thought that a stranger walking towards me might be carrying a weapon.
I don't need to live in a gated community. We have very few of those here. They are not needed.
Here, we are free. Over there, many of you seem imprisoned by your fear of each other, or of the unknown.
Your claims about "freedom" and "serfdom" are an example of your self-delusion.
@McTag,
Don't you find it ironic to be lectured about freedom by the rich man's lickspittle?
Happy Gun Appreciation Day
~~~~~~~~
Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 11:07 AM PST
Gun Appreciation Day shootings
by David Waldman
This won't require a lot of explanation. I decided to count as many incidents as I could of firearms being discharged on "Gun Appreciation Day," and what happened as a result. After hearing the news of five woundings in separate accidental shootings at three different gun shows during the day, I got curious about how many other incidents, both intentional and unintentional, might have happened during the day.
I'm sure that my list is not comprehensive. All I did was search Google news. Still, I came up with a list of 91 separate incidents in 34 states and the District of Columbia, killing a total of 34 people and wounding 65 more.
Additional methodology note: For the purposes of this list, I have defined gun "incidents" as those in which there was a discharge, intentional or otherwise. There is one exception on the list: an incident in Las Vegas, NV in which an elected state representative brandished a gun and threatened to shoot the Speaker-elect of the Nevada state legislature. I thought that merited consideration, though strictly speaking, that might open the list to the inclusion of armed robberies and the like, even if no shots were fired. Though it's certainly well within reason to argue that such incidents should be included, they threaten to make the list unmanageable, and perhaps dilute its impact. But the subject is certainly open for discussion.
If it makes conservatives feel any better, the state legislator arrested is a Democrat.
Take in the full list, below the fold.
Clarksburg, OH; 12:00 am EST. No injuries
Providence, RI; 12:30 am EST. 1 wounded
Buffalo, NY; 1:00 am EST. 1 dead
Columbus, GA; 1:00 am EST. No injuries
Cleveland, OH; 1:04 am EST. 1 dead, 1 wounded
Hamilton, OH; 12:20 CST. No injuries
Odenton, MD; 1:30am EST. 2 wounded
Kingston, NY; 1:45 am EST. 1 wounded
Allentown, PA; 2:00 am EST. 1 dead
Columbus, GA; 2:07 am EST. 1 incidentally wounded
Kirksville, MO; 1:30 am CST. No injuries, no property damage
Elmira, NY; 2:30 am EST. No injuries reported
Washington, DC; 2:30 am EST. 1 dead
Gresham, OR; 12:00 am PST. 1 dead
Spartanburg, SC; early am EST 1 wounded
Charlotte, NC; 3:00 am EST. 1 wounded
Greensboro, NC; 3:30 am EST. 1 dead
McDonough, GA; 3:30 am EST. 1 dead
Chicago, IL; 4:00 am CST. 1 wounded
Salem, OR; 1:00 am PST. 1 wounded
North Platte, NE; 3:30 am CST. No injuries
Colorado Springs, CO; 2:00 am MST. 1 wounded
Danville, IL; 3:00 am CST. 1 wounded
Sioux City, IA; 3:19 am. Property damage, no injuries
Las Vegas, NV; 2:00 am PST. 2 wounded
St. Louis, MO; 4:00 am CST. 1 dead
Chico, CA; 2:24 am PST. 2 wounded
Anchorage, AK; 2:45 am AKST. 1 wounded
Loleta, CA; 4:15 am PST. Incidental injury
Yuma, AZ; 5:45 am MST. Property damage, no injuries
Tallahassee, FL; 8:30 am EST. 1 wounded
Trinidad, OR; 8:00 am PST. 1 dead
Moscow, ID; 9:00 am PST. 1 dead
Stow Creek, NJ; 12:30 pm EST. 1 wounded
Jackson, MS; 12:00 pm CST. 1 wounded
Franklin Co., TX; 12:00 pm CST. 1 dead
Little Rock, AR; 12:10 pm CST. 2 wounded
Raleigh, NC; 1:15 pm EST. 3 wounded
Cleveland, OH; 1:45 pm EST. 1 dead
Hampton, VA; 1:46 pm EST. 2 dead
Long Beach, CA; 10:50 am PST. 1 wounded
Las Vegas, NV; 11:15 am PST. 2 wounded
Kansas City, KS; 1:40 pm CST. 1 dead
Chicago, IL; 1:49 pm CST. 1 wounded
Medina, OH; 3:00 pm EST. 1 wounded
Idaho Falls, ID; 1:00 pm MST. 1 dead
Chicago, IL; 2:00 pm CST. 1 wounded
London, KY; afternoon EST. 14-year-old wounded
London, KY; afternoon EST. 45-year-old wounded in separate incident
San Leandro, CA; 12:20 pm PST. 1 dead, 1 wounded
Port Edwards, WI; 3:00 pm CST. 1 wounded
Ft. Wayne, IN; 4:00 pm EST. 1 dead, 1 wounded
Indianapolis, IN; 4:15 pm EST. 1 wounded
San Jacinto, CA; 2:00 pm PST. 1 wounded
Colorado Springs, CO; time unknown MST. 2 wounded
Lake City, AR; 4:30 pm CST. 2 wounded (life-threatening)
Las Vegas, NV; 3:45 pm PST. No injuries reported
Concord, CA; 3:55 pm PST. No injuries reported
Long Beach, CA; 4:30 pm PST. 1 dead, 1 wounded
Rosewood, FL; evening EST. 1 dead
Oklahoma City, OK; 7:00 pm CST. 1 wounded
Springfield, MA; 8:00 pm EST. Property damage; no injuries
Greenwood, SC; 8:00 pm EST. 2 wounded
Winchester, KY; 8:02 pm EST. 1 wounded
Philadelphia, PA; night EST. 1 wounded
San Francisco, CA; 5:30 pm PST. 1 dead
Monroe, LA; night CST. 1 wounded
Sanford, FL; multiple incidents EST. Property damage, no injuries
Odessa, TX; 7:52 pm CST. 1 wounded
Tempe, AZ; 7:15 MST. 1 wounded
Livingston, CA; 6:23 pm PST. 2 wounded
Huntsville, AL; 8:30 pm CST. 1 wounded (life-threatening)
Atlanta, GA; 10:00 pm EST. 1 wounded
Greenville, SC; 10:06 pm EST. 1 dead
Chicago, IL; 9:19 pm CST. 1 wounded
Boston, MA; 10:30 pm EST. Pit bull killed by police officers
Thomasville, NC; 10:38 pm EST. 1 dead
Long Beach, CA; 8:00 pm PST. 1 wounded
Grapevine, TX; 10:00 pm CST. 2 dead
Chicago, IL; 10:00 pm CST. 1 wounded
Albuquerque, NM; 9:15 pm MST. 5 dead
Orlando, FL; night EST. 1 wounded
Sarasota, FL; 11:45 pm EST. 1 wounded
Farmington, NM; time unknown. No injuries
Columbia, SC; approximately 11:50 pm EST. 1 wounded
Ft. Washington, MD; approximately 11:55 pm EST. 1 dead
Aloha, OR; 9:00 pm PST. 1 wounded
Pomona, CA; 9:12 pm PST. 3 wounded
Woodville, CA; 9:45 pm PST. 1 dead, 1 wounded
Los Angeles, CA; 10:15 pm PST. 1 dead
Santa Ana, CA; 11:40 pm PST. 1 dead
