13
   

The real reason why Dec 7 is a day of infamy

 
 
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 12:43 pm
@parados,
As I've mentioned, at least a couple of times, you don't know what you are talking about, P, as usual.

And it's apparent that JoefromChicago lacks the honesty necessary to bring you up to speed.
joefromchicago
 
  5  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 12:48 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
And it's apparent that JoefromChicago lacks the honesty necessary to bring you up to speed.

I'm happy to bring Parados up to speed.

JTT said that Japan had valid reasons to attack the US, but JTT now doesn't want to reveal what those reasons were.

There, now you're up to speed.
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 12:55 pm
@joefromchicago,
It's not really all that surprising that your dishonesty comes with your trade, Joe.

Don't you have some ambulances to chase?
parados
 
  5  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 01:12 pm
@JTT,
So,just to refresh everyone:

JTT made this post - (located on page 2 of posts in this thread)
http://able2know.org/topic/203286-2#post-5189120
JTT wrote:

We know they were a series of blatant lies but that hardly makes them irrelevant. It actually makes the indictment of the US that much more serious. It makes the war crimes that much more egregious.

In the case of I & A, the US had no reason whatsoever for the vicious attack on those defenseless countries.

Japan had valid reasons to attack the US.

JoefromChicago's first post in this thread was in response to that and asked a simple question. (2nd post on page 3 of this thread)
http://able2know.org/topic/203286-3#post-5189668
joefromchicago wrote:

JTT wrote:
Japan had valid reasons to attack the US.

What were those reasons?


JTT asked no question of Joe. There is not a question in the post Joe responded to. But JTT would have us believe that JTT is not answering Joe's question because Joe has not answered JTT's questions first.
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 01:35 pm
@parados,
Typical of you to persist in your ignorance, parados.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 01:56 pm
@JTT,
Don't you have a question to answer?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 02:32 pm
@joefromchicago,
Filled your quota of ambulances for this week, have you, Joe?

What on earth are you so worried about this one little thing, Joe, when you've got FDR knowing full well about Pearl Harbor, sacrificing innocents and US treasure to start a war?

Why are you so concerned about this one little issue when you have people constantly advancing lies about the US?

Why are you so concerned about this one little issue when you have your president committing ongoing crimes against humanity, when you have your government planning and committing acts of terrorism against innocents around the world?

Could it be that you are just another BillRM, a Gob1, a Setanta, a Parados, a WandelJW, a Cycloptichorn, a ... trying to provide cover for US war crimes and US terrorism?
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 02:42 pm
@JTT,
Why are you afraid to answer the question?
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 05:13 pm
@joefromchicago,
Why are you so afraid to answer the questions? Why are you being so devious, leading your minions on?

Why are you being so dishonest?
mysteryman
 
  6  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 05:29 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Maybe JTT is providing cover for Japanese war crimes and Japanese terrorism.


He has to be.
JTT said that any act of aggression against another country was a war crime, and he also said that Japan was justified to attack the US.

So, JTT must be providing cover for and defending the war crimes committed by Japan against the nations and the civilian populations they conquered.
Judging by JTT's posts, he must support and applaud Japans war crimes.
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 05:37 pm
@mysteryman,

Published on Monday, November 17, 2003 by CommonDreams.org

Resistance to US Military Occupation: The Case of the Philippines
by Heather Gray

It is baffling that any American might not understand the Iraqi disdain of a US military occupation. How would Americans like being accosted by another country's military...being arrested by them, controlled by them, dictated to by them, tortured by them, killed by them.... exploited by its corporate entities and losing sovereignty? Americans should look at the Philippines' century long struggle for some answers to that question.

Bush referred to the Philippines as a model for the US relationship with Iraq and I would like to briefly describe that model. It was and remains a fiasco and tragedy. After being occupied directly or indirectly by the United States since the Philippine-American War (1899-1902), the Philippines has been victimized in this relationship. While the Filipino elite have always benefited from US interference in their country, the masses have suffered indignities, violence, extreme poverty, racism and no substantive reforms.

It is particularly important to highlight the initiation of "low intensity conflict" policies by the United States against Filipinos in 1901 - a practice the US continued to implement throughout the 20th century in Vietnam, Angola, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Columbia and elsewhere.

During the Spanish-American War in the late 1890's, US Commodore George Dewey descended upon the shores of the Philippines and destroyed the Spanish fleet in Manila Bay. Americans had a number of goals for occupying the Philippines. One was to create a military presence to then access the markets of China. The second was to utilize the Philippine raw materials for US industry. US President William McKinley described the third. After praying to "Almighty God", McKinley said that a message came to him that Americans were in the Philippines to "uplift and civilize and christianize" Filipinos. He was obviously not aware of the fact that the Filipinos had been "christianized" for 400 years by Spanish colonizers, against whom they had consistently rebelled.

As Howard Zinn notes in his People's History of the United States, the "Filipinos did not get the same message from God" and the resistance to US military intervention began in 1899 in what has remained, up to the present time, organized efforts by Filipinos in opposition to US interference.

Initially, Filipinos thought that the Americans were there to help them kick out the Spanish and end 400 years of repression. After fruitless attempts to negotiate, however, the reality of the US intention became clear. The Filipinos were forced to acknowledge that the Americans intended to replace the Spanish as the colonial rulers. In The Philippines Reader, Daniel Schirmer and Stephen Shalom provide first hand accounts of this period. On February 5, 1899 Philippine President Emilio Aguinaldo urged his people to fight in response to the "outbreak of hostilities between the Philippine forces and the American forces of occupation, (which were) unjustly and unexpectedly provoked by the latter.... The constant outrages and taunts, which have caused the misery of the people...and finally the useless conferences and contempt shown the Philippine government prove the premeditated transgression of justice and liberty."

The American reaction was swift and the slaughter by US forces is legendary. Philippine scholar Luziminda Francisco refers to that brutal imperial American war that launched the 20th century as the "first Vietnam War" in which estimates of from 600,000 to a million Filipinos died. She states that the estimate of up to a million deaths might "err on the side of understatement" as one US congressman, who visited the Philippines at the time, was quoted as saying "They never rebel in Luzon (Philippines) anymore because there isn't anybody left to rebel...our soldiers took no prisoners, they kept no records, they simply swept the country and wherever and whenever they could get hold of a Filipino they killed him."

In response to a massacre of 54 Americans by the Filipino resistance in Samar, Francisco describes how US General "Howling Jake" Smith launched a "reign of terror" on the island. "Kill and burn..." Smith said "the more you kill and burn the more you'll please me." When asked the age limit for killing, he said, "Everything over ten." The order from Smith was that Samar becomes a "howling wilderness" so that "even the birds could not live there." The Americans had begun to utilize the deadly "water torture" against Filipinos - forcing huge amounts of water into their stomachs to then gather information - and Smith insisted on its use in Samar.

There were four US regiments of Black soldiers in the Philippines during the Philippine-American War. Many were outraged at the abuses and attitude of the white soldiers toward the Filipinos. Zinn refers to a letter from a volunteer from the state of Washington who wrote: "Our fighting blood was up, and we all wanted to kill 'niggers'.... this shooting human beings beats rabbit hunting all to pieces." David Fagan, one of the Black soldiers, left the US ranks to fight along side Filipinos and "for two years wreaked havoc upon the American forces."

The Philippine resistance fought valiantly against the well-armed Americans. Francisco states that the "Filipinos had to adapt to their limitations as best they could...with darts, the ubiquitous bolo, and even stones, prompting (US) General Lawton to remark, 'they are the bravest men I have ever seen'...."

It is also noteworthy that once the Americans captured Aguinaldo in April 1901 they expected hostilities to cease and were "dismayed" that this was not the case. As the movement against the American presence had massive support, the fighting continued "unabated." This revelation led the leader of the US campaign, General Arthur MacArthur, to resign.

The American policy was so brutal that even American personnel were skeptical. Francisco quotes a US civil servant in the Philippines at the time who said that because of the "burning, torture and other harsh treatments" the Americans were "sowing the seeds for a perpetual revolution. If these things need to be done, they had best be done by native troops so that the people of the U.S. will not be credited therewith." Obviously this warning was heeded, as in 1901 the Americans created the Philippine Constabulary, comprised of Filipinos, who would work at the behest of and ruthlessly serve US interests during the U.S. colonization of the Philippines.


...

http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1117-11.htm
mysteryman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 05:41 pm
@JTT,
And I am not denying that in the least.
The US is guilty of some major crimes throughout its history, not the least of them being our occupation of the Phillipines.

However, how does that justify anything you have said about Japan or your refusal to answer the questions put to you?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 06:12 pm
@mysteryman,
AMEN!
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  5  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2013 10:42 pm
@JTT,
I have minions? I doubt that. I do, however, have people who actually read my posts, so I guess that puts me one up on you.

Now, answer the question.
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2013 10:52 pm
@joefromchicago,
You want me to answer your questions without extending the same courtesy to me? No, I'm afraid we can't proceed on that basis. As long as you selectively quote from my posts and ignore my questions, I have no problem doing the same with yours.
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 10 Mar, 2013 10:55 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
I have minions? I doubt that.


Your typical dishonesty, Joe. They'll be along shortly.

Quote:
I do, however, have people who actually read my posts, so I guess that puts me one up on you.


If people didn't read my posts, you wouldn't have so many little hangers on.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2013 10:42 am
@JTT,
I'm sure you were itching to use that response on me at the first opportunity. Unfortunately, that opportunity came in a thread where you hadn't asked me any questions. So, instead of being a devastating retort, it just makes you look unhinged.

In any event, you won't tell me what question you want me to answer because you don't really want me to answer any questions. If I did, then you'd be obliged to answer my question, and you clearly don't want to do that.

And I understand why. You made a mistake. You said something that, in retrospect, you shouldn't have said, and I'm sure you were hoping no one would notice. But unfortunately for you both mysteryman and I did, and now you're in a pickle. You can't identify the "valid reasons" why Japan attacked the US because those reasons might justify US attacks against other countries, and you couldn't possibly admit that the US has any justifications for doing anything because that would destroy your entire world view. On the other hand, you can't admit you made a mistake because -- well, because you're a dick. So you've taken the only way out you can -- you whine that everybody else has a problem answering questions while pretending that you never said what you said. Of course, that just makes you look even more unhinged than you already are, but I suppose you're used to that by now.

It must be hell to be you.
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2013 11:29 am
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
You can't identify the "valid reasons" why Japan attacked the US because those reasons might justify US attacks against other countries,


"might", Joe? You're a lot dumber than you appear. Are you hoping that this "might" lead you to be able to justify the myriad war crimes, the ongoing terrorism that is the USA?

You really are a lot dumber than you appear.
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2013 11:44 am
@JTT,
Answer the question and we'll find out.
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2013 12:12 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
and you couldn't possibly admit that the US has any justifications for doing anything because that would destroy your entire world view.


And your lies, Joe. How many times have they got you disbarred?

I told you a good while ago that I had started a thread specifically for MM to describe the good things the US has done. I would love to see some examples. It would do a body good, even a dumpy one like yours.

Think how nice that would be. Actual good things the US has done instead of having to rely on the propaganda.
0 Replies
 
 

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