Tax Increases

Zar, the FairTax Plan is the solution, get on board or get out of the way.

H2O when congress wants to pass a law to clear cut our forests they name it the Save Our Forests Bill. The lie is in the name after all who would not support a bill to “save our forests.” The “Fair Tax” is named exactly like that. Always beware of slime balls bearing gifts. They come not to improve the tax system but to cut their taxes and raise the middle class taxes.

There are all kind of so called “fair tax schemes” they have been around for years and they all share one thing in common they shift the taxes on the ungodly to poor and middle class. Shifting taxes from income to consumption would result in a 50% tax burden for the poor and middle class when all state and local taxes are added up while the ungodly greedy would pay .005% tax because they spend a tiny percentage of their income. If you think you paying 50% of your income in taxes and Bill Gates paying .005% is a Fair Tax I just happen to have a bridge across the Ohio River for sale.

There is no such thing as a “Fair Tax” this is not a ball game and nobody ever said taxes would be fair. We tax many things for instance it is not fair that I pay tax on my car and you don’t pay tax on your $10,000 bike they are both modes of transportation.

This tax plan reminds of one of the J C Whitney’s auto catalogs where sold all these miracles in a jar. If you bought this it made your car get another 25mpg and 50 more horse power if you bought all the miracles your Volkswagen would have 1,000 horse power and get 200 mpg. People are so easily taken in. the book was published in 2008 and it was thoroughly discredited at the time it was published. A new copy of the book can be purchased for $2.08 the shipping and handling cost more than the book. That should tell you what the information in that book is worth.

Do you have any idea what it would cost to have a government department that rebated to consumption tax to 307 million people? We would have one government organization collecting the tax money and another giving it back. Sales tax of course is now collected on a quarterly bases and it takes another quarter before the state returns the city share. This is nothing more than a miracle in a jar for the tax system. None of the tax bills mention in the book passed

Raising taxes and spending is the wrong solution.

Cutting taxes and spending is the right thing to do

H2O the reason taxes have to be raised is pay for Reagan’s tripling of the National Debt and Baby Bush’s unnecessary $3 trillion dollar war for control of Iraq oil. The money is already spent and currently 40% of the so called “spending” is paying interest on the debt Reagan and baby Bush ran up. But for Reagan’s 60% tax cut for the ungodly greedy and Bush war to make the Texas oil billionaires richer the National debt for WWII would have been paid off in the early 1990s. Iraq was under selling the oil cartel and gasoline was selling for 92.9 cents in America in December 2001.

It is a shame but the Reagan/Bush debt has to be paid and 40% of every tax dollar for next 5 decades will be needed to pay it. The cold hard facts are government has one way to pay the Reagan/Bush debt back higher taxes. The National Debt is not quite as high as it was after WWII as a percentage of GNP. Next social security and Medicare are not spending they have dedicated funding sources and have trillions in their trust funds. That is another 40% of the budget that is not spending. That leaves the general fund with 20% to spend for military, to maintain interstate highways and all other need.

The WWII generation did not want to pay 93% taxes to pay for WWII but they believed if you ran the bill up you paid that bill and indeed they did pay their until Reagan’s Voodoo economics tripled it.

When the commie/conservatives talk about cutting spending they are talking about cutting social security and Medicare which are fully funded by independent revenue streams and trust funds. When social security, Medicare, and the 40% debt service are take out the military consumes 80% of that remaining 20% and the come/conservatives are not going to cut the real spending problem which is on the military. The commie/conservatives have no such problem cutting social security and Medicare which are fully funded and can be in no way considered “spending.” The commie/conservatives want a 50% cut in social security phased in over time. Since social security replaces only 40% of pre-retirement income now if the commie/conservatives get their way social security would replace only 20% of pre-retirement in the future this would result in most of retirees being put on Welfare to survive. But if social security can be cut the money can be used to keep taxes on the ungodly artificially low. Taxes have to pay for Reagan’s voodoo economics sooner or later it is not a question of whether to raise the taxes but when. Fantasies are nice and you can imagine pay very low or no taxes but sooner or later harsh reality sets in.

H2O I downloaded a copy of “The Fair Tax Book” to my Kindle. I usually underline important points or in this case obvious lies. The trouble with the my Kindle is I can only dog ear the page upon which the lies appears and I have had to dog ear so many pages so far I would almost have to reread the book to locate a specific lie.

The “Fair Tax” was conceived much like “Voodoo Economics” a bunch of rich men out on a drunk trying to figure out to get out of paying their taxes. “Never ever underestimate self-interest as a motive.” Do you really want to pay 23% tax on everything you buy? I bought a new car last year that cost $25,000. There is already a 6% title tax on cars in WV so the total tax would be 29%. The 23% “Fair Tax” would add an additional $5,750 to purchase of the car. A month after I bought the car a speeding driver ran a red light at 60 mph demolished the car and then hit me the second time to shove me out of the way so he could run. The car was completely totaled the passenger side was cave in so bad the glove compartment couldn’t be opened to get the registration an insurance information. I had to purchase a second new car in a little over month meaning I would have had to pay the $5,750 Fair Tax again. The car was financed for 5 years meaning I was spending money this year that I would not make for 5 years. This meaning I would be paying my “Fair Tax” 5 years in advance. This would be great for banks and finical institutions because people would be paying 5 years interest on their “Fair Tax.” Just making those two purchases would have cost me $11,500 in taxes or 33% of last year income. My other purchases that year would be taxed at 23% meaning I would pay another $7,130 if I didn’t purchase anything else on credit. Total taxes paid last year would be $18,630, meaning I would have paid 54% of my income in Federal Taxes alone.

Last year my effective tax rate was 9% raising it to 54% is not an improvement.

Of course there are exemptions from the national sales tax just as there are exemptions from the income tax, for instance the purchase of stock are exempt from the 23% national sales tax. The ungodly greedy buy 90% of the stock so of course purchase of stocks are exempted from the National Sales tax. The purchase of stock is not a purchase it is an “investment.”

Beware of rich men bearing “Fair Taxes.”

Have you read obama's plan?

Liberal & democratic idiots love spending other peoples money, yes they do.

H2O don’t tell me you never actually read “The Fair Tax Book.” You read the cover and said there is a slogan I like. Under the plan of the ungodly greedy authors who wrote this rubbish the plan is that when the 23% national sales tax was implemented you will continue to pay all your income tax, social security and Medicare but not to the government to your employer. That is right you would continue to have the same take home pay and then pay an additional 23% sales tax on top of all the other taxes. Where does the saving come in? We all know if the company would cut prices if you continued paying your income tax, social security, and Medicare to the company the company would cut their prices they would never stick another $100 million in the CEO pocket. Of course the CEO would not continue to pay income tax as he is paid in company stock which is tax exempt under the plan.

When they focused tested their “Fair Tax” plan they were very surprised to find that people actually objected to paying taxes directly to corporate headquarters and then paying the same taxes through a 23% national sales tax. Don’t bother to file for an income tax refund from corporate headquarters either they don’t do refunds. Keep waiting for those lower prices though it may be a few years or a few centuries. The authors say there is simply no way the corporations could keep all those tax dollars for themselves they would have to lower prices or go out of business, just trust them to keep your money.

H2O, Obama plan was to raise the taxes on the ungodly greedy and cut the taxes on the middle class and he did that by raising the taxes on the ungodly greedy back to the point it was when we had a balanced budget and making the temporary middle class tax cuts permanent. Notice that commie/conservatives always want to cut spending back to this or that year but they are not in favor of rasing taxes back to the point they were when Clinton balanced the budget. Clinton balanced the budget with the 39.6% tax rate on the ungodly greedy. Bush cut it and ran the deficit up $5 trillion during his term in office. Can you even imagine what the interest on $5 trillion is? That interest that has to be paid on the Bush and Reagan debt is causing the current deficits. We went from several surpluses under Clinton to a $5 trillion deficit in one rigged election where the majority of Americans voted against baby Bush.

The spending taking place was Reagan and Bush spending the “social security” and Medicare trust funds on tax cuts for the ungodly greedy. The return of the social security and Medicare trust fund to those who paid it is not “spending.” However Bush spending $3 trillion on a war to force the price of Iraqi oil up is spending.

You are quite the fecal flinger, Zar

It is nice to see that the commie/conservatives have finally come up with a “fair tax plan.” Over 56 of commie/conservatives House members have signed up to support “The Fair Tax.” The plan is to replace the current income tax, social security, and Medicare taxes with a 23% National Sales tax. There of course is a commie/conservative catch when the 23% National Sales tax is implemented working people will continue to pay income tax, social security, and Medicare just as they are now with one important difference it will no longer be paid to the government but to corporation they work for. The corporations would extract a 20% employment tax from their employees. On top of the 20% corporate tax the employees would pay an additional 23% in National sales tax.

When the obviously senile authors of “The Fair Tax Plan” focus tested their ideas they could not understand why people would not want to continuing pay their income tax, social security, and Medicare taxes to their employer and pay an additional 23% in National sales tax. After all they would have the same take home pay as before. If they never had it they will never miss it. The authors believe the corporations would use their employee’s income tax, social and Medicare tax to lower prices. If the corporation had another $100 million the authors believe it would be used to cut prices but it is far more likely to end up in the pockets of the CEO.

Beware the so called “Fair Tax” it is a scam that allows corporations to directly tax employees and would more than double the taxes paid by the middle class.

H2O I am sure you won’t mind to continue to pay your current income tax, social security and Medicare tax to your employer instead of the government and then pay an additional 23% National Sales tax, after all it is a “Fair Tax.” The way the ungodly greedy look at what you pay in income tax, social security and Medicare is so small it is not worth the trouble to give it back to you, sort of like a penny lying in the street it is not worth bending over to pick up.

Here you can clearly see the difference between a “Slogan” and reality the title of the book is a “slogan” but the reality of paying 74% of your wages in taxes is far from fair. A tax levied on “excess wealth” would become a tax levied on the middle class. A consumption tax would destroy an economy based on consumption. It would simply price many people out of the market. A house that previously cost $100,000 would now cost a $123,000 and many people would be priced out of buying a house. An apartment that rented for $900 a month would rent for $1107 a month. A severe depression would closely follow the implementation of the “Fair Tax.” But the ungodly greedy tax rate will fall to a tiny fraction of what it is now and that is their idea of a “Fair Tax.”

If you want less of something you tax it. Less consumption would be harful to the economy.

H2O “The Fair Tax” certainly belongs under the topic of “Tax Increases.” I am up to chapter 10 in and it gets worse with every chapter. First there is a dispute as to whether it is a 23% tax or a 30% tax on everything you buy. If you buy something for $100 you pay $23 in value added tax. But in actuality your purchase only cost $77 and the tax was $23. If we divide $23 by $77 to get the actual percentage we find that $23 is actually 30% of $77 purchase not 23%. “Figures don’t lie but liars do figure.” The difference the author tells us is between an inclusive and exclusive tax. If the tax is included in the price product it is an inclusive tax. The value added tax is included in the price of the product while sales tax is an exclusive tax and is added at the cash register to the price. A product that costs a $100 with a 6% sales tax costs a $106 a true 6% tax but a product that costs $77 with $23 is not a 23% tax it is a 30% tax.

Since the cost of taxes is embedded in the price of the product state and local sales tax would apply to the embedded National Sales Tax as well. In Huntington another 7% would be applied to the total purchase including the $23 embedded National Sales Tax 7% of $23 is a $1.61 in additional sales tax. Meaning the National Sales tax would cost the purchaser an additional $24.61 or 32%.

But wait it gets even worse the Congressional Budget Office and two other governments organizations study showed that to replace the current federal government revenue the actual percentage of a National Sales Tax would have to be between 64% and 89%. The reasoning is that food and medicine would have to be exempt from National Sales tax. The author of the book feels that the poverty level rebate is sufficient to cover these purchases. The poverty level rebate is based on number of people in the household and of course every household would get this rebate including billionaires like Bill Gates. The author, Neal Boortz, say not to call the National Sales Tax a “Flat Tax” to call it a progressive tax.

H2O once you paid your National Sales Tax plus your state and local taxes your Fair Tax Rate may be over 100%. This will be necessary for Bill Gates and the other ungodly greedy to have a tax rate .005%

The FairTax is revenue neutral.
It will neither raise nor lower taxes so consumer costs remain stable.

H2O when I have a conman working Huntington he will go door passing out flyers looking for people like you easy marks. Often he can take the same mark two or three times. I actually had a mark from a neighboring state that had been taken four different times by the same conman call and ask me if she dealt with him again did I think he would rip her off again? He was working Huntington at the same time. Huntington is located in a tri-state area and a conman can be out of state in less than 5 minutes. That feature makes Huntington an attractive target. If you move fast enough and don’t get greedy it is easy target.

Revenue neutral? That is just a prediction because a national Sales Tax would cause major shifts in the economy and not necessarily for the good. What difference does it make if you pay 89% of your income in National Sales Tax and Bill Gates pays .005% of his income? Do you really want to pay 89% of your income in taxes? Three separate government agencies did the actual math and showed the National Sales Tax would have to be between 64% and 89%. Who do you think is more likely to tell the truth the three ungodly greedy authors who will see their tax rate drop to .005% or the government agencies? Even the most extreme right school of economics don’t support this scam. Even those responsible for Voodoo and trickle down economics can’t support this hare brained scam.

H2O tell me is 89% more than 9%?

H2O what does “revenue neutral” mean to you? Do you believe that it means that both you and the ungodly greedy would continue to pay the same percentage of taxes as they do now. The ungodly greedy would pay less than 1% while you would pay 89% according to the Congressional Budget Office. If that is your idea of a “fair tax” you must be one of the ungodly greedy with an income of at least billion. Even if this tax was “revenue neutral” which is no more than a prediction, and is about as reliable as consulting the fortune teller down the street. No one can predict the future they can only guess. This tax would cause major upheavals in the economy and would geometrically accelerate the country wealth distribution.

But not to worry, Bill Gates and the rest of the ungodly greedy would receive monthly welfare checks for life. This is what the ungodly greedy have wanted all along their very own government welfare check. The monthly checks called “pre-bates” would be issued to everyone requiring a massive bureaucracy to send out monthly welfare checks. This is nothing more than a scam to transfer the middle class’s remaining wealth to the ungodly greedy. The income tax’s original purpose was to tax “excess wealth.” The Fair Tax’s intended purpose is to tax medical care, prescription drugs, housing, energy education and even government purchases would not be exempt. The so called Fair Tax was designed by the more for me crowd, those who are richer than god and want more.

The question in America now is how can we do our part to help the ungodly greedy. The Fair Tax answers that question by creating a welfare system for the extremely wealthy. Yes it is true under the Fair Tax Bill Gates and the rest of the ungodly greedy would receive monthly welfare checks. This would remove the stigma from welfare. If Bill Gates is receiving welfare why would anyone else be ashamed to take a government welfare check?


This is what the ungodly greedy have wanted all along their very own government welfare check. The monthly checks called “pre-bates” would be issued to everyone requiring a massive bureaucracy to send out monthly welfare checks. The “Fair Tax” is nothing more than a scam to transfer the middle class’s remaining wealth to the ungodly greedy. The income tax’s original purpose was to tax “excess wealth.” The Fair Tax’s intended purpose is to tax medical care, prescription drugs, housing, energy education and even government purchases would not be exempt. The so called Fair Tax was designed by the more for me crowd, those who are richer than god and want more.

'the ungodly greedy' appear to be left wing liberal democrats and their supporters.

There's seemed to be a leak on this post that's ended up being a Squirt

H2O, the Republican Party has been the party of the rich for at least the last century. Their slogan used to be “Whatever is good for General Motors is good for the country. Of course when it came down to actually saving General Motors the commie/conservatives were against it. Because when Obama saved General Motors he kept the ungodly greedy from stealing the pensions and health benefits of 100s of thousands of auto workers and the commie/conservatives make a bargain they have no intention of keeping it. If you will give us a lifetime of labor in exchange we will give you a pension health care but once they get their side of the bargain, they, like all thieves, they feel justified in cheating you out of your side of the bargain.