18
   

Earth to Msolga. Do you copy? Over!

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Nov, 2012 08:57 pm
@farmerman,
Not you, silly.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 04:48 pm
@roger,
That's why I specified "for a time."

There will always be ebb and flows, and they will occur regionally and not in chronological sync.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 04:53 pm
@farmerman,
The concept will spread out the effect, but the spread is unlikely to be global unless it is accompanied by other imperatives.

And even if the spread is global it will be through warfare and not ecological collapse.

The notion that humans will pro-create to the point where all of the earth's resources have been consumed is of a simplistically linear nature that defies reality.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 04:54 pm
@ossobuco,
Then who? Stop being coy.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 04:59 pm
@farmerman,
The decimating of Olga. Not you, that I remember - I read fast.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 05:00 pm
@roger,
It didn't?
Siena lost hope.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 05:14 pm
@ossobuco,
The thread has moved beyond Olga
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 05:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Really?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 05:19 pm
@ossobuco,
Really.

Look at the last tag.

You're the only one invoking her name of late.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 05:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Oh well. I guess I need to review.
I used to yammer at her, but I like her and miss her.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2012 06:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
BS Finn, my entire dippings about whale hunting hs been with olga (and my) POVs. She was a good presenor of news and reports from the Whale Wars .
She backed her stuff with clips
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 06:01 am
@farmerman,
But they were all one-sided if I remember correctly.

Here's Veblen on the American record--

Quote:
First among these natural resources to fall under the American plan were the fur-bearing animals. The fur trade, of course, was not a matter of the first magnitude, and it is now (1923) a scarce-remembered episode of pioneering enterprise; nor does it now count in any appreciable degree among the useful means of livelihood, in great part because business enterprise has run through that range of natural resources with exemplary thoroughness and expedition and has left the place of it bare. It is worthwhile to speak of it here only because it shows a finished instance of business-as-usual converting community goods to private gain without afterthought. It is a neat, compact, and concluded chapter of American business enterprise.
Bound up with the enterprise there is also an unwritten chapter on the debauchery and manslaughter entailed on the Indian population of the country by the same businesslike fur trade; one of the least engaging chapters of colonial history, lapping over far into the nineteenth century, and leaving more than one distasteful sequel to run into the future. Indirectly and unintentionally, but speedily and conclusively, the traffic of the fur traders converted a reasonably peaceable and temperate native population to a state of fanatical hostility among themselves and an unmanageable complication of outlaws in their contact with the white population. The traffic has, of course, also had its effect on the latter, chiefly by way of what may be called sclerosis of the American soul.


Similarly in Australia with the native population. The Australians deliberately infected the rabbit population with a ghastly disease called myxomatosis whereby millions of rabbits died a lingering death just as did millions of animals trapped by the hideous accessories of the fur trade.

We in England make war on rats with what is euphemistically called "rat poison" and we control foxes and are on the point of culling beavers. Seals are culled with clubs to help keep fish stocks up for human use.

Quote:
General Douglas MacArthur encouraged the surrendered Japan to continue whaling in order to provide a cheap source of meat to starving people (and millions of dollars in oil for the USA and Europe). The Japanese whaling industry quickly recovered as MacArthur authorized two tankers, converted into factory ships (Hashidate Maru and Nisshin Maru), with whale catchers to once again take blue whales, fins, humpbacks and sperm whales in the Antarctic and elsewhere.


There is no moral high ground in these matters.

Olga produced one-sided propaganda derived from emotional anthropomorphism. It was perfectly in order to take her to task on a discussion forum.

Her Arab Spring encouragement and the Chinese coal ship business were similar instances of emotionally charged, and wholly misplaced, indignation and there was a necessity to challenge it.
dalehileman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 12:23 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
There is no moral high ground in these matters.
Amen

But then how about our destruction

She might actually approve, a means whereby we'd correct Her terrible mistake
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 01:43 pm
@dalehileman,
What destruction is that dale?

We are self-correcting and have redundancy to the nth dimension.

Quote:
She might actually approve, a means whereby we'd correct Her terrible mistake


That is too ambiguous to risk commenting on.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 01:46 pm
@spendius,
You seem to accept the past as a sentence to the future. We differ there dearie.
"Rabbitiesis" was a way to restore a land that was overrun with rabbits,(just as cane toads are "in abundance "today)
In all of those cases, the disasterous actions were not the result of clear planning. They were usully an action b well intentioned but stupid (usually) govt agents.
Whale killing will be leading to the extinction of a species that is perfectly adapted to its environment and the critical mass and environmental carrying capacity does NOT need harvesting by mans that are totlly bogus an artificlly justified.
There may not be a moral high ground for protecting whales, but I can see over your head and your silly makeshift arguments
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 01:49 pm
@farmerman,
nd to claim that olgas clips were one sided. WHY NOT? The purpose of most of the "debators" that jumped in on that thread was to pile on her opinions. SO now you want her to abandon her arguments ? Why not just disappear spendi,?
dalehileman
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 01:49 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
What destruction is that dale?
Our imminent second nuclear conflict

….if not worldwide famine and disease

Quote:
We are self-correcting and have redundancy to the nth dimension.
Spend you've lost me there, please elaborate

Quote:
She might actually approve, a means whereby we'd correct Her terrible mistake


Quote:
That is too ambiguous to risk commenting on.
My apologies

It means She might actually prefer we wipe ourselves out
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 02:56 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
There may not be a moral high ground for protecting whales,


As long as you allow that there is nothing else to say about Olga.

On the pragmatic approach I think experts are all we have.

Quote:
"Rabbitiesis" was a way to restore a land that was overrun with rabbits


The land has a way. Your statement implies that myxomatosis is justified in terms of human use and land values in money terms.

Quote:
They were usully an action b well intentioned but stupid (usually) govt agents.


The use of "stupid" frees you from the discipline of logical discussion. And "(usually)" frees you from being definite.

Quote:
Whale killing will be leading to the extinction of a species that is perfectly adapted to its environment and the critical mass and environmental carrying capacity does NOT need harvesting by mans that are totlly bogus an artificlly justified.


Of course whale killing will lead to extinction if it continues until whales are extinct. Your statement is meaningless. There is not the slightest chance of whales becoming extinct by man hunting them.

A far as I looked Japan killed 267 whales in the least season. How many whales are there? Whales are in far more danger from the activities in high-level consumer societies through poison, sea temperature rises and maybe underwater sonar activity.

An evolutionist knows that no mammal species is perfectly adapted to its environment. That is implicit in evolutionary theory. Obviously. I suppose the house fly comes pretty close though but that is only based upon external appearances in human terms. A mammalian species perfectly adapted to its environment must cease to evolve unless the evolution process it is subjected to is directed towards extinction.

What is "environment" anyway. Is mankind not part of the whale's environment and has dominion over them?

Quote:
but I can see over your head and your silly makeshift arguments


I can see through yours. You're a scaremonger who is using doomsday scenarios to get attention and you can't back up anything you say which causes you to blurt ad-homs like that on those occasions you take me off Ignore.

Olga has put A2K on Ignore it seems. And she deployed ad-homs as well.

My impression is that there is a large number of species in danger of extinction due the our activities. There is the Abolokopatrika Madagascar Frog for example which I think you are not bothered about because it doesn't lend itself to you consuming a large and inordinate volume of scarce resources in order to bring back pictures of you viewing them to bore the arse of whoever you can find to bore. Can you not imagine how boring it is to listen to someone preening about having been to see whales blowing off as if it is a superior form of human behaviour. Probably frightening them. From your own argument the couch potato is a superior being.

And that is a name I picked out of the first page of the alphabetical list under "A" which I got fed up of scrolling through.

And there is the Coelacanth which the scientists said was extinct and turned out not to be.

The fact that you never mention Norway seems to me to indicate a prejudice against Japan. I have known a few people with such a prejudice. Not all of them deriving it from movies.

dalehileman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 03:02 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
There is not the slightest chance of whales becoming extinct by man hunting them.
Maybe you're right, Spend, but I remember many reports far to the contrary

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=hp&cp=6&gs_id=2r&xhr=t&q=extermination+of+whales&pf=p&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&oq=extermination+of+whales&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=470fb0d49eac1a9&bpcl=39314241&biw=1378&bih=644&bs=1
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2012 04:15 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
nd to claim that olgas clips were one sided. WHY NOT? The purpose of most of the "debators" that jumped in on that thread was to pile on her opinions. SO now you want her to abandon her arguments ? Why not just disappear spendi,?


If everybody disappeared who you don't agree with this site would degenerate into a farmerman adoration society. Your intemperate and emotional state would still need some exercise if I disappeared.

I had no objection to Olga's clips being one-sided. And I didn't pile on her opinions although I accept she might have thought that.

But if you go to the thread you will see that all I did was suggest to her that there are other sides, giving examples of what those other sides would say and suggesting that the issues are not as clear cut as her one-sidedness was presenting them to be. If she left because she couldn't take any other side being presented, as she might not have done, then the hallmark of bigotry was displayed.

I don't remember taking a personal position on whales or on the Arab Spring or on the coal ship incident. I haven't got one because I am aware of the complexity of each of those matters. All I offered were the facts as I understood them and on which I am perfectly happy to be challenged on.

I don't want her to abandon her arguments. Not in the least. It is a ridiculous suggestion. Extinct whales is to the whaling industry as extinct Olga is to me.

I am not "most of the 'debaters' ". Don't use soppy tricks like that on international forums. This is not your circle of cowed listeners. Eliding from "most debaters" to me personally, without any explanation, is devious.

Get your act together and realise that you have nothing to say about these complexities of any significance and then we can discuss important matters like the price of beer or the development of lingerie in the Christian cultural setting. Which is unique.

How are licences allocated for fracking operations?
0 Replies
 
 

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