30
   

How Many White People Will Vote for Romney Because He's White?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2012 07:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Of course you don't want to address the article written by Ta-Nehisi Coates, do you, Finn. You haven't been given the go ahead from your minders to discuss anything difficult.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 08:19 am
Good take on the issue:

Quote:
Bradley's Revenge

If Obama loses, the left will blame imaginary racists.

By JAMES TARANTO

If Barack Obama's re-election campaign ends in failure, you can expect to hear a lot about a man named Tom Bradley.

Bradley, who died in 1998, was a five-term mayor of Los Angeles, serving from 1973 until 1993. In 1982 he ran to succeed California's then-Gov. (also now-Gov.) Jerry Brown. Polls showed Bradley leading, but he lost narrowly to the Republican nominee, Attorney General George Deukmejian. Bradley lost again, this time by a landslide, in a 1986 rematch.

Thirty years later, the first Deukmejian-Bradley contest is remembered for having produced the idea of the "Bradley Effect." This was a hypothesis, or a legend, that aimed to explain why the polls erred in predicting a Bradley victory. It proposed that for racial reasons a significant number of voters told pollsters they were for Bradley (who was black) but voted for Deukmejian (who is white).

The Bradley Effect has been invoked in several other elections since, most notably the 1989 contests for governor of Virginia and mayor of New York. Black Democrats Douglas Wilder and David Dinkins, respectively, won those races, but they underperformed relative to late polls.

Whether the Bradley Effect hypothesis is true is a matter of considerable dispute. The secret ballot makes it untestable, and the polls might have been wrong because of bad methodology (bias in sampling or weighting) or just ordinary statistical error. In the case of pre-election polls, it may be that enough voters simply changed their minds before Election Day.

Whether or not there was a Bradley Effect in 1982, no one argues there was one in 2008, when black Democrat Barack Obama handily defeated white Republican John McCain. But this time around, with Obama leading Romney only narrowly in most polls, and trailing in others, the idea has been revived.

Here's contrarian Californian Mickey Kaus, a grudging Obama supporter:

Voters who were genuinely enthusiastic about Obama in 2008–and therefore told pollsters they were voting for him and voted for him–might have second thoughts in 2012, but be reluctant to express them for fear of either seeming cruel (to a pol they tend to like personally) or racist (last hired, first fired!). . . .You'd think this would be a possibility pundits would take seriously right around . . . now. At the least it will give them something to talk about.

We'd note that this column raised the possibility that something like the Bradley Effect was inflating Obama's "likability" ratings, but that was last December so it's ancient history. Now, it is lefties, preparing to apportion blame in the event of an unfavorable outcome tomorrow, who are alighting on the Bradley Effect.

Among them is former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, in an especially weird post on his New York Times blog. Krugman opens by inveighing against the Financial Times for publishing a headline describing the presidential contest as being "on a knife's edge." That is "deeply misleading," Krugman contends, because accredited scientist Nate Silver has declared that Obama is the prohibitive favorite.

But Krugman spends roughly half his post vindicating the FT by noting arguments against that proposition:

As Nate says, it's definitely possible that the polls are systematically wrong. The obvious ways they could go wrong, cell phones and Latinos, favor Obama rather than Romney; but maybe pollsters are overcompensating for these factors, or maybe there's a large Bradley effect distorting poll responses. Reporting about these possibilities would be interesting.

Reporting on a Bradley Effect would present quite a challenge, since it would entail finding voters who tell reporters that they deceived pollsters and confirming their honesty. One can, however, do a little analytical musing about the possibility of a Bradley Effect.

What's important to understand is that for the left, the Bradley Effect is not only an analytical construct but a moral one. Stephen Kaus, a doctrinaire San Francisco Democrat, made this clear the other night, tweeting to brother Mickey and yours truly (quoting verbatim):

"Can you braniacs explain why the Bradley effect isn't out and out racism. Bubba can't pull the lever for blk guy."

Thus belief in the Bradley Effect is a consolation prize for the left: If Obama loses, it reinforces their sense that racism is alive and well in America--and that they, who reject it, are better than most Americans.

But even if the Bradley Effect exists, construing it as indicating racism makes no sense. Stephen Kaus's formulation--"Bubba can't pull the lever for blk guy"--begs the question. To a doctrinaire lefty, it is axiomatic that many Republican voters are motivated by racism. It's safe to surmise Kaus believes that is true both of Romney voters who tell pollsters their true intent and of those who tell pollsters they are voting Democratic. Is there any reason to think it is more likely to be true of the latter group than of the former?

If anything, intuition suggests the opposite. Imagine a focus group of white Mississippians in 1946 in which participants are asked their opinions of Sen. Theodore Bilbo. None of them will vote against Bilbo, since he is running unopposed, but they express varying degrees of enthusiasm about his racist ideas. Wouldn't you assume that those who openly and strongly support them are the most racist, while those who are reticent or express reservations are the least?

Of course, America in 2012 is not Mississippi in 1946. White supremacy was prevalent there and then and is stigmatized here and now. The hypothetical Bradley Effect voter is operating within the context of that stigma. He falsely tells pollsters that he is voting for the black Democrat because he feels either guilty or ashamed to be voting for the white Republican.

The guilty Bradley Effect voter is one who has internalized the axiom that it is racist to vote Republican. That is, he agrees with Stephen Kaus.

The ashamed Bradley Effect voter does not think it is racist to vote Republican but is averse to the harsh judgment of those who do. That is, he is intimidated by people who think like Stephen Kaus. (Another term for this phenomenon is "social acceptability bias").

This column is a Bradley Effect skeptic. We doubt that such guilt and fear are a major source of bias in election polls. But if they are, that wouldn't demonstrate that liberal suppositions about race in America are true, only that they are influential.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203846804578100893981059314.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 09:23 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Nate Silver did some Bradley effect analyses and said you don't see much of it anymore. Should Obama lose I think you will see excuses more along the line of voter suppression and outside money. If Romney loses I think you will see a lot of Hurricane Sandy excuses.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 09:27 am
@engineer,
I agree on both sides. Option C - "we just weren't buying what they were selling" doesn't seem to get much traction but is probably the reason we're basically at 50/50 and polarized.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 09:39 am
@engineer,
I'm still betting on the race card being played, but agree that there will also be charges of voter suppression and buying an election. Interesting choice of words with "outside." Outside of what? The laws or the nation? In the case of a Romney loss there probably will be charges of both. I don't see Sandy being played up as an "excuse," as much as an explanation.

The number one excuse for a Romney loss will be the bias of the Media and number two will be "The most negative campaign in history."

They're all excuses though.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 09:52 am
@engineer,
Link on the analysis of the Bradley effect: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/bradley-effect-or-elephant-effect.html

I meant "outside" as outside the state, super PAC money, etc. I like your "media bias" and "negative campaign" takes.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 10:19 am
@engineer,
Here's one conservative list of excuses for an Obama victory.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 10:31 am
@engineer,
That was pretty damned hilarious. I love the way conservatives, when so much of the media is owned by conservatives, continue to whine about media bias. I was also bemused by the "war on women" whine--as though there were something wrong with a focus on things which matter to women. I guess i just don't fit in with the "women should stay at home and do as they're told" crowd.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 10:32 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Here's one conservative list of excuses for an Obama victory.

I don't know whether to take those excuses seriously or not. Some of them don't make much sense like claiming splitting the 20 electoral votes in PA between congressional districts would have cost Obama 20 electoral votes. That would be impossible since Obama winning the state means he would HAVE to win at least some of the congressional districts and the total vote so he would have minimum of 3 of the 20 and probably 12-15 of them.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 10:35 am
I shouldn't, because the evidence is manifest for all to see and only those too stupid or ignorant can't see it, but I feel I need to say for the record: Voter suppression is real, and it is being perpetrated entirely by one side - the Republicans.

I say this not because I don't think Obama is going to win - I believe he's going to win reelection and I believe we will see that result of this election before midnight tonight.

I feel I need to say it because of the twisted, lowdown scumbags who keep saying its just some figment of imagination, or some attempt at a preemptive excuse.

Voter suppression is real; it's being perpetrated openly by The governor of florida and the secretary of state of Ohio, and not so openly by rightwing crazies like True the Vote and other paid lackies of the rabid rightwing. And maybe the only thing that's lower than those actually doing it are those who live and promote the lie that it doesn't exist.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 10:39 am
@snood,
agreed
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 10:47 am
@parados,
Pennsylvania has 23 electoral votes. I suspect the author was imagining an urban/rural divide, and suggesting that the 20 "non-urban" districts would go Republican if not lumped in with Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. I'd say that assumption has never heard of the Mainline in Philadelphia.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 10:47 am
@Setanta,
I would like to fit in but my wife would thump the hell out of me.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 11:05 am
@Setanta,
All the EC maps show Pa as having 20 electoral votes this year.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 11:12 am
This is the map i found at Google:

http://politicalmaps.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/electoral-2000-s.jpg

So obviously not all the maps show that.

This map shows Pennsylvania having 21 electoral votes:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/2004_US_elections_map_electoral_votes.png

This map also shows 21:

http://www.vernonkids.com/cedarmountain/4thgradelinks/ElectoralVotes/electoral%20vote%20map.JPG

(I didn't post the image because it stretches the screen.)

This map also shows 21 electoral votes:

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/usstates/electorl.gif
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 11:14 am
It was not until the fifth map that i found in a Google search that i found a map which showed Pennsylvania as having 20 electoral votes.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 11:36 am
Quote:
racism is alive and well in America--and that they, who reject it, are better than most Americans.


Do I think I am better than a racist? Well, yes. I think I am thinking more logically and clearly. I think I am above having an opinion of people based on an irrelevant criteria. I think I am better off and a better citizen if the fact that our President is half negro does not affect my analysis of his actions or what I believe we should do as a country.

Racism = ignorance in my book and there is nothing good about it.

I was in line waiting to vote this morning, people were talking. Steering clear of who they were voting for, as it should be. An older gentlemen walked by and started talking to the lady next to me, his neighbor. He said, 'I voted, glad you are voting, vote the right way!' I said, 'That means your way, right?' People chuckled. He said, 'You can look at me and tell which way I voted.'. He was very short, but I couldn't see that that mattered. What do you think he meant?

I don't find it very amusing.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 11:51 am
@Setanta,
Your first map would be using the 1990 census. The second one is using the 2000 census. PA has lost electoral votes as it's number of congressional seats has declined. I was referring to maps that show the current election.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 12:28 pm
@parados,
So was i . . . but i know you hate to be wrong, so, you're right, you win, when UPS delivers your prize, let me know what you got.

The true number of electors in Pennsylvania doesn't alter my comment, nor yours.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 12:43 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I shouldn't, because the evidence is manifest for all to see and only those too stupid or ignorant can't see it, but I feel I need to say for the record: Voter suppression is real, and it is being perpetrated entirely by one side - the Republicans.
History isn't with you on this point. The champions of voter suppression were for several generations the southern Democrats. In addition, voter suppression isn't the only kind of mischief thast can be applied in elections. Voter fraud is also a serious problem, and history amply confirms that as well. Just what is the divide between what was euphamistically called "overzealous voter registration" as was verified in the case of Acorn, and outright voter fraud? We now have a fairly reliable historical verification that voter fraud, organized by both the Democrat machiue in Chicago and likely by the Mafia, was what gave JFK the 1960 election. Both sides have in the past been guilty of various forms of voter fraud and manipulation, and the Democrats more than the Republicans.

snood wrote:
I say this not because I don't think Obama is going to win - I believe he's going to win reelection and I believe we will see that result of this election before midnight tonight.

I feel I need to say it because of the twisted, lowdown scumbags who keep saying its just some figment of imagination, or some attempt at a preemptive excuse.
How do you feel about the "twisted lowdown scumbags" who insist that voter fraud including voting by non registered voters, multiple voting usinfg stolen identity, etc. is a figment of the imagination? WE know for example that fraudulent voter registration leads directly to fradulent voting and both Acorn and Labor Unions have been doing this for a very long time.

snood wrote:
Voter suppression is real; it's being perpetrated openly by The governor of florida and the secretary of state of Ohio, and not so openly by rightwing crazies like True the Vote and other paid lackies of the rabid rightwing. And maybe the only thing that's lower than those actually doing it are those who live and promote the lie that it doesn't exist.
Illegal voting and vote manipulation is real as well, though you apparently ignore its existence. Some of the actions you describe as voter suppression are entirely justifiable in view of past experience of voter fraud and manipulation.

I'm not saying that all of these are free of self-serving taint - far from it. Rather that self-serving rationalizations in this area are common to all political parties. You appear to believe that all of the stink is on the other side and that your's is the sweetest perfume. That's simply not a realistic view.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 1.45 seconds on 12/21/2024 at 10:42:56