13
   

How far has John McCain fallen...

 
 
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:52 am
Some will say that John McCain has always been a political hack. But the image of John McCain was appealing. A war hero with honor who could rise above politics for the good of the country.

Now John McCain is attacking Colin Powell for Gen. Powell's endorsement of Obama. It is one thing for McCain not to follow General Powell's lead, but to feel the need to hold a press conference to publicly scold him is pathetic.

Ironically, General Powell is what John McCain should have been, a military leader who has the ability to rise above political party for the good of the country.

John McCain still makes me sad.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 13 • Views: 2,778 • Replies: 45

 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 12:44 pm
McCain's jealous because Powell served in Vietnam and still managed to avoid being captured by the North Vietnamese.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 12:47 pm
@maxdancona,
Link
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 01:27 pm
McCain isn't entitled to an opinion?
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 01:32 pm
@McGentrix,
Sure, as is Powell, but to say that you are disappointed in someone because of how they vote seems a little petty. Why can't Powell look at the two candidates and vote for the one he feels is best for the country regardless of party? I'm more disappointed that McCain wouldn't say "I disagree with you vote but defend your right to cast it."
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 01:36 pm
@engineer,
Maybe Powell should become a Democrat instead of a Republican then?

Maybe Powell is voting for Obama because he is black? (hypothetical only, I doubt that is the case.)

Perhaps McCain wants to see a Republican President and is doing his best to see to it that happens by criticizing Powell publicly.

Who knows, but saying McCain has sunk so low as to criticize Powell for his vote... nonsense. He is merely expressing himself as he has done all through the years.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 01:44 pm
@McGentrix,
Its not what he says, its how he says it.
Engineers point of "I respect your right, I just disagree with your choice" Woulda been a whole boatload smarter and classier
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 01:50 pm
@farmerman,
Not really McCain's style though, right?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 01:51 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Maybe Powell should become a Democrat instead of a Republican then?

Maybe Powell is voting for Obama because he is black? (hypothetical only, I doubt that is the case.)

That was McCain's point, that there is no room for Republicans that vote their conscious. That's like saying there is no room for Union members who vote against their leadership or blacks that vote for a white candidate. To me that belief is fundamentally un-American. How many times have you heard someone say they will vote for the best candidate regardless of party or race? Does no one believe that any more? If Powell said "I'm voting black because that's my tribe" McCain would have had a seizure but then he demands the same by party.

McGentrix wrote:
Perhaps McCain wants to see a Republican President and is doing his best to see to it that happens by criticizing Powell publicly.

I always hold out hope that politicians will reach some line that they will not cross to win although I am often disappointed. McCain made some choices in 2008 especially challenging supporters when they said they were "fearful" of Obama that made me think he had some lines he wouldn't cross, so yes, I'm disappointed to see him cross one now.
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 04:35 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Ironically, General Powell is what John McCain should have been, a military leader who has the ability to rise above political party for the good of the country.

John McCain still makes me sad.


Powell sold his principals to the Bush/Cheney Admin. when he went before the UN to propagate what he knew at the time to be bogus evidence of Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction in that administration's push for war.

I don't see McCain sinking anywhere near as low as Powell did.

If McCain can effect sadness, then Powell certainly effects utter contempt.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 05:04 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Powell sold his principals to the Bush/Cheney Admin. when he went before the UN to propagate what he knew at the time to be bogus evidence of Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction in that administration's push for war.


Oh, horseshit.

I'll bet you wouldn't have said about Adlai Stevenson spouting horseshit at the U.N. because the Kennedy boys had convinced him it was the truth.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:21 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
It's asinine to compare Stevenson's UN speech with Powell's. Powell had known from the State Department's intelligence arm, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) that there were no WMDs in Iraq, and that Hussein's alleged pursuit of them amounted to smoke and mirrors. Up to the time that he gave his UN speech the INR gave him their assessment of the "evidence" he was about to present to the UN confirming that, over all, it was horseshit.

There is no evidence that Stevenson had anywhere near the intelligence that Powell had to lead him to think that the evidence he was to present to the UN in regard to Soviet missiles in Cuba was horseshit.

Your attempted comparison is itself risible horseshit.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:40 pm
i find it impossible to be disappointed in McCain since the 08 run, specifically after picking Palin. However I now wonder if there was ever any there there....I wonder if maybe all along I got snookered into a great victim worship yarn, a story that he was constantly selling himself with.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:43 pm
As I recall at the time the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld cabal did a smowjob on him and convinced Powell that the case for WMDs was airtight. He was livid when it came out later that the whole yellowcake uranium story was a fabrication. He felt they'd destroyed his hard-bought reputation for honesty to advance their political ends. They'd used him.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:50 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

As I recall at the time the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld cabal did a smowjob on him and convinced Powell that the case for WMDs was airtight. He was livid when it came out later that the whole yellowcake uranium story was a fabrication. He felt they'd destroyed his hard-bought reputation for honesty to advance their political ends. They'd used him.

powell's reputation is for being an overly timid warrior, one that he keeps living up to:

Quote:
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a longtime Republican, is sticking with President Barack Obama in this year’s election.
He told CBS’ This Morning on Thursday that he respects fellow Republican Mitt Romney but thinks he’s been vague on many issues.
Powell said the president got the United States out of Iraq, has laid out a plan for leaving Afghanistan “and didn’t get us into any new wars.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/national-politics/20121025-political-briefs-colin-powell-again-endorses-obama.ece
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:58 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Powell sold his principals to the Bush/Cheney Admin. when he went before the UN to propagate what he knew at the time to be bogus evidence of Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction in that administration's push for war.

I don't pay a great deal of attention to these things, so I guess it's no surprise that's the first I've heard of that
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2012 08:48 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

As I recall at the time the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld cabal did a smowjob on him and convinced Powell that the case for WMDs was airtight. He was livid when it came out later that the whole yellowcake uranium story was a fabrication. He felt they'd destroyed his hard-bought reputation for honesty to advance their political ends. They'd used him.


The State Department, whom Powell had been head of, had been against the war based on the intelligence that it's intelligence arm, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), had had, they were about the only agency that resisted pressure from the Bush/Cheney administration to provide "evidence" favorable to a cause for war. Up to the time that Powell let himself be put up to present the Administration's case before the UN, the INR provided assessments that the info he was about to deliver was bogus, for various reasons such as questionable sources, outright lack of evidence and contradictions, and overall lack of customary vetting.

He wanted so hard to be a good soldier to the President that he allowed himself to believe in the bogus evidence all the while he had had evidence that countered it. His is a textbook example of cognitive dissonance.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2012 09:54 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

powell's reputation is for being an overly timid warrior, one that he keeps living up to

That somewhat matches my view of Powell. He always seemed to me more a political general at home in the office battleground than someone you could see inspiring troops. I say that as someone wh0 has only seen him from afar - I could be completely wrong. He also struck me as a company man - loyal to the boss to a fault (something very valued in the military). I think that was something that Bush valued but it was also what allowed him to be persuded to front for Bush in the run-up to Iraq and led to a sense of betrayal that has caused him to steer clear of the neo-cons since. He's never going to support someone rattling sabres with Iran. I wonder if Romney took strikes against Iran and Syria off the table would Powell come over to his side for economic and social reasons.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2012 10:01 am
I know of no reason for Powell to be considered a timid soldier. He served at least two tours in Vietnam that i recall, and possibly a third. He served in the field and was wounded when he stepped on a primitive VC booby trap. Powell's military doctrine was to bring overwhelming force--which puts him in the same club as Patton, Hodges, Bradley and Eisenhower. I'd say this is yet another case of Whackeye talking out of his ass.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2012 11:12 am
@Setanta,
But, but, wackeye is a moderate.
 

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