Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 10:26 pm
After Obama's terrible performance, all Joe Biden had to do was show some emotion and say 47% more than once and liberals around the nation would be declaring victory and calling for Biden in 2016.

By that very feeble standard, Joe did the job.

I missed the first 20 minutes, but I don't think Joe made any of his usual gaffes and so that was a success.

However...

Biden's rude, smirking and sighing theatrics is what the general public, and (more importantly) independents will take away from this debate.

Early polls already are indicating the populace believes Ryan won.

From what I saw, he didn't do a great job.

It was clear that he went in with the strategy of letting Binden blather on the hope that the more the Vice-Clown talked, the more pokey he would say something.

20 minutes into it, Ryan looked nervous and from what I have heard, he was that way for the first 20 minutes.

So it has to be the negative reaction to the J Fred Muggs performance of Biden.

Now that I've heard the replay of the first 20 minutes, I think Biden did make a huge gaffe: He threw the intelligence community under the bus on the Bengazhi disaster.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 29 • Views: 4,161 • Replies: 92

 
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MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 11:56 pm
Biden schooled Ryan good and proper. Sorry, Finn, but the poll of independents NBC conducted had Biden the clear winner, already up on Ryan before the debate, and improving his position markedly. I really can't think of a single one of the debates 9 or so topics that Ryan won on. Didn;t see any of that alleged "bullying" of Raditz, but I did see him mopping the floor with Ryan. And I think you're going to see that same thing with an energized Obama mopping up Romney in the 2nd presidential debate. All he has to do is tell the truth and scorn the multitude of Romney lies and panders, which he got away with in the first debate.

Raditz did a great job as moderator too, in my opinion.
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hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 01:00 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
but I did see him mopping the floor with Ryan

that would put you in the minority

Quote:
Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.

According to the survey, 55% said that the vice president did better than expected, with 51% saying that the congressman from Wisconsin performed better than expected.

By a 50%-41% margin, debate watchers say that Ryan rather than Biden better expressed himself.

Seven in ten said Biden was seen as spending more time attacking his opponent, and that may be a contributing factor in Ryan's 53%-43% advantage on being more likable. Ryan also had a slight advantage on being more in touch with the problems of average Americans.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 04:27 am
Biden was impressive in taking apart Ryan's statements at every turn, while clearly stating the administration's positions.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 05:16 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Ryan also had a slight advantage on being more in touch with the problems of average Americans.
viewed objectively, Id say jut the opposite. Biden was clearly the "Kichen table populist" Ryan was another GOP elitist with desires of personal controls over half the population
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 05:23 am
@farmerman,
Also Hawkee, if you didnt watch it yourself, posting blogs is a poor substitute for doing your homework. Most blogs get their materials from secondary sources anyway. youll find many blogs using the same quotes and lines.
Their not real journalists
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  8  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 05:30 am

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/J/e/4/paul-ryan-rich.jpg
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 05:47 am
I tried to watch the debate from two perspectives -- my own, and that of the elusive "undecided" (or persuadable) voter.

From my perspective, I absolutely loved it. I loved Biden's "can ya believe this??" glances at the camera, and how he kept cracking up. (I don't think I've ever laughed so much in a debate -- I found it to be contagious.) I loved how he directly addressed Ryan's logical flaws and contradictions, and pressed him on specifics. I loved "my friend." I loved how he obviously knows this stuff cold. I loved how he got serious when he needed to be, and how he expressed his respect for the troops. I loved his passion and fire.

From the undecided/ persuadable side, there were some things that worried me, will see how that develops. The laughing, which I adored, could be seen as too arrogant/ dismissive of elements of the Romney/ Ryan campaign that they actually like, or they're at least listening to. (Though I think Biden did a good job of laughing at the contradictions and lies rather than actual ideas.) The interrupting could be seen as too mean, especially if people are predisposed to like Ryan.

Overall I thought Joe did an awesome job, and was especially impressed with how relaxed, positive, and on-point he was in a really high-pressure situation.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:30 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Joe Biden has amazingly white teeth...and the "birther" issue gotta be raised again...only this time for Ryan. Can that guy actually be old enough to run for this job?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:33 am
Why is it, I wonder, that Hawkeye left out the other half of the Bruni blog, where Bruni talks about Biden tearing Ryan apart on SUBSTANCE, and only posts the part where Bruni questions some of Biden's STYLE.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:38 am
@sozobe,
I second all you said.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:38 am
@sozobe,
I was really amazed with how Biden was so solid

sozobe wrote:
I loved how he obviously knows this stuff cold. .


I didn't expect him to do well at all. I expected him to flake out somewhere along the line and say something goofy.

He was solid.

Gramps schooled little Eddie.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:39 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I'd pretty much agree with your summarization. All Biden had to do was to stop that damn smirking. It was irrating to watch.

Now granted this was just one person, but I did hear one independent call in on the radio this morning that said he was on the fence on who to vote for - he said Biden smirking clinched it for him - he couldn't vote for Obama because he was concerned that Biden is one heart beat away from the presidency. Now granted this could be any person calling in - so I do take it with a grain of salt. Being a music radio station and not talk - I didn't hear anyone else call in one way or another in regarding to their voting - but many talk about the smirking.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:41 am
@MontereyJack,
Actually all the polls I read had them pretty much even - I do think though Biden has to hold back on his smirking - he had some good things to say that was lost because of his rudeness.

WASHINGTON -- Two surveys released after Thursday's vice presidential debate found both candidates made strong impressions on voters, but differed on who performed best.

A CNN survey of registered voters who watched the debate and had previously agreed to be interviewed found Paul Ryan the winner, 48 percent to 44 percent, but that was well within the survey's five percentage point margin of error. Respondents also said they thought Ryan communicated more clearly than Vice President Joe Biden, by a 50 percent to 41 percent margin, and that Ryan was more likable, 53 percent to 43 percent.


And I agree the moderator did a great job handling it.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:50 am
@sozobe,
I am an independent and I found Biden very unlikeable, rude and condensing. I took the laughing as not being serious about these issues. What the h*ll, this is important stuff and you are laughing?

Whereas Ryan came across as being more likeable, reasonable and levelheaded. He gave respect the opponent. Now I am coming from a perspective where I honestly don't much about Ryan. I was impressed on how he handled himself and thought he was much more professional.

On the flip side though I am not basing my voting on this reason - although right now I don't like Biden.
Although I was disappointed that Biden didn't slip on something - I was watching for some sort of entertainment value from that perspective. Those slips actually make him more likeable to me - shows he is a real person and can make mistakes. The laughing smirking and lack of respect for his opponent and moditor makes you appear an a$$.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 06:55 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
I do think though Biden has to hold back on his smirking.

From a tactical perspective you have a point. From a human perspective you ask too much. Ryan lied so often you either had to laugh or to cry. Biden's reflex was to laugh (so he has a sunny nature --- good for him!) and only reduced it to a smirk. I sympathize.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 07:02 am
@Thomas,
Look at it this way - if he is talking to another leader in other country that is lying through his teeth would it be in the best interest of our country to be smirking and laughing in this leader's face? One would hope that some one at his age/level of experience would have some self control.

That is the image and what I picture could happen. He is a loose cannon and I would worry he would make a misstep in something more serious. Good thing Obama is young.
sozobe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2012 07:09 am
@Linkat,
This wasn't the leader of another country, though, it was a vice presidential debate.

After the whoppers Romney told last debate that caught Obama flat-footed, I thought incredulous laughter was a great response. I don't think it was a lack of self-control, I think it was both genuine and something that Biden purposely allowed himself to do as a real-time response to ridiculousness, within a debate format.

Biden controlled himself just fine when the situation called for it -- he immediately sobered up when Ryan related the story of the tragic car crash family, for example. (Which by the way was a bit of a misstep on Ryan's part I thought -- did he not know that Biden has a tragic car crash in his own past?)
 

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