Veep Debate

@maxdancona,

And by that standard, and by the reaction in this thread, Biden was very successful.

It was a fairly risky strategy but the Obama campaign must have determined that the gut punch their base took as a result of Obama's poor performance in his debate had to be treated, regardless of whether or not they lost any independent voters.

Someone would have had to have watched the debate with a pre-determined affinity for Biden and a desire to see him extremely aggressive to have interpreted his loony Cheshire Cat antics as indicative of a "sunny disposition."

I can't see his rude and boorish behavior costing them the election, but it was a good indication of how much the campaign felt the first Romney/Obama debate hurt them.

Oh, and by the way, he lied like a rug so all this nonsense about him as the truth-teller shining a light on the mendacity of Romney/Ryan is simply self-delusion.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

So right, Finn, now would you be so kind as to list all the lies of both of the participants so that we might judge the state of your independent thinking?

Joe(phhhhffffttt)Nation

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One from Biden might be a the one about

Quote:

"We weren't told they wanted more security there," Biden said. "We did not know they wanted more security again."

But it might not.

Quote:

"The vice president was speaking about himself and the president and the White House," said White House spokesman Jay Carney, when pressed about Biden's remarks on Friday. "He was not referring to the administration, clearly, since there was a public hearing for four and a half hours where it was discussed openly by individuals working at the State Department [that requests had been made]."

source

One from Ryan is

Quote:

“It took the president two weeks to acknowledge that [the Libya attack] was a terrorist attack.”

source

Quote:

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.

Obama 11/12/12

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Huffpost:

Apparently, Mr. Biden relied on a strict regimen of candy, sandwiches, energy drinks and caffeine to get him in shape for his matchup with Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan.
According to the White House pool report, the VP may have gotten his strength thanks to a steady stream of M&Ms, animal crackers, Gatorade, coffee, tea and subs from a popular sandwich shop called Capriotti’s.

So what's with the carb-loading? Long, exhausting mock debates could have left everyone feeling tired and studies show that people crave junk food even more when they are sleepy. That's Healthy Living's pet theory anyway. While we'll never know if there was a method behind all the added sugar or oversized sandwiches, it seemed to have little impact on the well-performing incumbent. While there obviously isn't a study on junk food and presidential debate performance, studies in school children suggest that long-term junk diets affect academic performance, though there's little evidence to suggest an occasional binge would do the same.

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http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/fy0l0j.gif

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So tell me, Finn, what IS the proper facial expression to wear when you're sitting and repeatedly listening to loads of crap? Laughing at the absjurdity is out, eh? How about pointing at your opponent and miming his nose growing, a la Pinocchio? Maybe Biden should have gone for that instead, whaddaya think?

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Polls showing that a majority believe that Ryan won blows your theory that Biden "clearly" won to hell.

No they don't. People who love Ryan or his positions would say he won regardless. It would have to be a carefully designed poll to make sure that everyone was non-biased going in. I like my census of talking heads better. The side that is all shrill is the loser, the side that is all smug is the winner. By that metric, Biden comes out on top.

1 Reply

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

Polls showing that a majority believe that Ryan won blows your theory that Biden "clearly" won to hell.

No they don't. People who love Ryan or his positions would say he won regardless. It would have to be a carefully designed poll to make sure that everyone was non-biased going in. I like my census of talking heads better. The side that is all shrill is the loser, the side that is all smug is the winner. By that metric, Biden comes out on top.

you are very confused, this was not an academic exercise, it was politics. the winner is the one the American majority says it is first, and ultimately it is the one who did the best job of getting votes for his team. Biden might have won, but it is not clear yet that he did. you sir are jumping the gun.

Quote:

. I like my census of talking heads better.

the elites do not decide elections, the people do.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Proverbs 26:9 Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool.

Proverbs 6:2. Thou art ensnared with the words of thy mouth, and caught with thy own words.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Gosh Finn.... you could take Proverbs all day and apply them

Romney - Seems to ignore the following -
28:3 A ruler who oppresses the poor is like a driving rain that leaves no crops.
28:11 A rich man may be wise in his own eyes, but a poor man who has discernment sees through him.
31:8 "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute.
31:9 Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

Obama -
29:14 If a king judges the poor with fairness, his throne will always be secure.

And then of course there is your annoyance with Biden Finn
12:16 A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

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@Joe Nation,

Here are a few of Biden's lies since so many of you think he is a paragon of the truth and would never bother to question anything he said:

Quote:

"Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security again."

I suppose y'all will want to hang your hat on the interpretation that by "we," he mean't him and Barry. At this point we don't know if the Pres and VP were told but we know the State Department was and the State Department is part of the Obama Administration.

Quote:

"It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card...I was there. I voted against him."

Yes, he was there and he voted for both the Afghan and Iraq Wars.

Quote:

"No, they are not four years closer to a nuclear weapon."

They (Iran) most certainly are as they have been steadily working on developing nukes throughout the first Obama term. The Administration's plan of sanctions and diplomacy is intended to have them, at some point, abandon their plans, but even its most stalwart defenders can't argue (truthfully) that it has stopped or retarded those plans.

Quote:

"The congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for."

The Ryan budget doesn't address embassy security. It calls for 19% decrease in non-defense discretionary spending. Biden (if he came up with any of these lies on his own - which I doubt) is using a favorite trick of the Administration and applying the 19% cut to any expenditure that suits there attack.

Quote:

"Just let the taxes expire like they’re supposed to on those millionaires."

The Administration's plan is to let them expire on households earning more than $250,000 a year. It's not limited to "millionaires."

Quote:

"You know, I heard that death panel argument from Sarah Palin. It seems that every vice presidential debate, I hear this kind of stuff about panels."

ObamaCare was merely a gleam in Barry's eye when Biden debated Palin. She couldn't possibly have brought up anything about the program.

I couldn't care less how you might judge the state of my independent thinking. Do your own research on what Ryan said.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

you are very confused, this was not an academic exercise, it was politics. the winner is the one the American majority says it is first, and ultimately it is the one who did the best job of getting votes for his team.

So if Obama wins the election you will conclude he won the first debate? It seems to me that if 51% of the people are against your candidate and cannot be swayed, you are saying he will lose every debate by definition.

1 Reply

I don't know if this qualifies as a lie but in response to the question about Benghazi, he throws his intelligence agencies under the bus, but in response to the very next question about Iranian nukes he argues that the intelligence agencies would let them know as soon as it was necessary to make a move.

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@engineer,

Quote:

It seems to me that if 51% of the people are against your candidate and cannot be swayed, you are saying he will lose every debate by definition.

no, I am saying that if 51% of the American people say that he lost then he lost, no matter what the elite or some segment of the elite say. However, the mission here was to get some more votes for the team, the guy who did this best is almost certainly going to be the guy that the American people decided was the winner, and the person who fulfills the mission the best is also a winner.

the metrics I care about are practical, not the ones dreamed up by the elite, for instance who would have been declared the winner had this been an academic debate challenge. As a former liberal I no longer participate in the practice of forcing myself to adopt the views of the elite.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

According to the CBS poll, Biden delivered a decisive victory, with 50 percent of respondents electing him as the winner and 31 choosing Ryan.

CNN's poll, however, showed a much closer contest -- with Ryan leading by four points, at 48 percent to Biden's 44 percent.

So what accounts for the difference?

"The CNN and CBS News post-debate polls were conducted among two different samples of voters so different results are not that surprising," said Jen De Pinto, manager of surveys for CBS News' polling unit. "The CBS News Poll interviewed uncommitted voters who watched the debate -voters who are undecided in this election or pick a candidate but say they could change their minds."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531577/who-won-the-vp-debate-why-the-polls-were-so-different/

according to these two polls both guys won, which we call a draw. The statement that Biden clearly won is thus false.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I'm going to agree with your previous post and say the purpose of the debates has been to influence votes. By that standard, I'm calling Biden the winner. He came across as just plain likeable. Ryan did not, and people often vote for who they like. Actually, I wonder just what the polls were supposed to be measuring.

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Is it true that Ryan is running for congress in Wisconsin just in case the VP gig doesn't pan out? That's legal?

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@Ceili,

I don't know if he is doing that but yes, it is legal.

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