Veep Debate

Paul Ryan is not the leader of any country. And, Murphy willing, he will never become one.

Apart from this specific issue, what's with this focus on style? Americans aren't electing a prom queen and a vice prom queen. They are electing a presidential ticket that may or may not start a war with Iran, that may or may not crash the American economy once more. In two years, will people drive around with bumper stickers saying "I'm unemployed because of my vice president's budget plan, but at least he doesn't interrupt people"? I doubt it. Style is essential in a prom queen, but mostly adornment in a president. It's substance that's essential in a president. And on substance, Biden wiped the floor with Ryan.

re Linkat:
I thought it was pretty clear what was going on there with Biden laughing: Ryan was trying and failing to make a point and just saying something ludicrous, and Biden had him in his sights and was about to let him have it with both barrels. Ryan was the quail, or the Quayle.

If all he did was smile and smirk and shake his head and raise his hands to the sky (funny), then it would not have worked. But after smiling, he came back with substance on the issues, Ryan often didn't.

That's a really good point. The laughter etc. was a placeholder -- "that thing right there is malarkey and I'm going to tell you why when it's my turn."

I only caught the tail end of the debate, but I certainly wasn't impressed with Ryan talking over the moderator.

I was primed not to be impressed with Ryan, though.

When you can't call it what it clearly is, because you can't say "bullshit" on broadcast TV in primetime, "malarkey" is a pretty good substitute.

You quoted the CNN survey of all voters but not the CBS poll of undecided voters who watched the debate. That one found that Biden won, 50% to 31%.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say

You can go ahead and have your opinion but if you look at people like me - independent voters we didn't like it. So if you really want the Democrats to win - Biden better change his ways.

And like I said - I wasn't voting for a prom queen - I said this would not impact my vote. However, many undecided people didn't like it.

I am pointing out what they need to do - and what their opinions are - whether you agree or not these are the people that will ultimately decide. I am not saying which is right or not.

Yes I saw afterwards that one poll had Biden winning - others I've read have not - Boston Globe for instance who tends to side more on the side of liberals had the debate as a tie. I'm just saying - if you want to put your heads in the sand then go ahead - but those in the middle for the most part didn't like Biden's attitude.

He was better though than the President's performance.

Funny you say that because if you watched the entire debate you wouldn't have liked Biden. He talked over the moderator much more frequently and even talked down toward her.

There have been two polls so far, one (of all voters) that found it about a draw, one (of just undecided voters) that found that Biden had a clear win.

That's limited data so far, yes, but if it indicates anything it's that "those in the middle for the most part" DID like Biden, not the opposite.

This is from the Boston Globe - a known more liberal type local paper.

"The vice president castigated Romney and Ryan for describing whole chunks of the US electorate as freeloaders, bringing up the “47-percent” comment made by Romney at a private fund-raiser that Obama failed to raise a week ago.

But Biden, at 69, also verged on losing his cool with the 42-year-old congressman, constantly interrupting him as would a parent exasperated with the commentary of a chatty teen. He even snapped at debate moderator Martha Raddatz of ABC News at one point.

While warming to Democrats, such aggressiveness carried the risk of turning off moderate, independent voters in a race polling nationally within the margin of error. And it played into a well-rehearsed debate thematic delivered by Ryan to the audience at Centre College in Danville, Ky., and watching elsewhere on television or computer screen."

This is an example of what I've seen mentioned in several news reports - the Dems like Biden's approach whereas those in the middle may or did not. I do think he did well in mentioning the 47% which Obama did not and lost on that - and also his response to abortion - which fits in more with my viewpoint (more a libertain viewpoint.


I am trying to be honest here - this is what is not going to help the Democrats - take it from what you will - you may like his tactics but it ain't going help with those in the middle.

Since I dident watch the debate I guess I cant say anything about it. But I decided not to watch any of them. 4 weeks before the election they are all putting the best face on their lies so I am still reading everything they have said publicly before the election. The debates are a showcase for the people who havent been paying attention to whats been going on for the last 12 years. Emphasis on show.

There are many polls out there actually - these are the two bigger ones. And you look they are both from the more liberal media viewpoints.

Yes - I agree - I watch them for the entertainment value - like I said I do not decide my vote by them.

I am simply being beaten up here because I am giving an honest middle of the road viewpoint that differs from people supporting their candidate.

If the democrats lose this election - in part it will be because of reasons like this - not understanding others opinions and not seeing what is right under their nose. Obama has this race to lose and he did a horrible job in the previous debate. He is a much better speaker to lose the way he did. He had his head in the sand and thought he could sail through it.

Face the truth if you want to win. I give Biden more credit at least he came out fighting - although he needed to be more respectful people don't like it when you act condescending.

That's not polls, though, which is what you said originally. (And you quoted the first part of an article mentioning the poll that showed a near-draw -- a win for Ryan within the statistical margin of error, of all voters -- while cutting it off before the poll that showed that Biden won by almost 20 points amongst undecided voters.)

So, based on the poll evidence so far, this:



Is not true.

Can you link to these other polls, please?

not likely to happen...

in my mind it's bush/palin all over again.
just a proverbial bullet away, do you really want ryan running the country?

I agree with what Krauthammer had to say about it... if you look at the transcript, it was a virtual tie. If you listened on the radio, Biden won. If you watched on TV, Ryan won.

You are wrong about "the middle". The debate was not aimed at the middle. The focus of the campaigns from here on out is to get out the base.

To be in the middle at this point of this contentious debate between two very different views people have to be either stupid or apathetic. The people in the middle are going to vote for some stupid random reason, if they vote at all.

This year there aren't very many people in the middle, which is why you don't see the campaigns focusing on them very much.

The election will be won by the side that gets the most of its supporters riled up enough to get to the polls. The middle doesn't matter (no matter how important it wants to feel).

Here's a sample of many articles I've seen that mention these two scientific polls -- the CNN poll and the CBS poll -- and not any others.

There have been polls on websites and such that are not scientific.



http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/173882381.html