MOTIVES For the Colorado Theater Murders ?

@firefly,

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If he flubbed his orals, for some reason, he could have taken them over.

Retaking them would not solve three of his professors wondering about his mental stability after he made a mistake and went into altered consciousness,

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The university is refusing to answer questions about him and they don't want anyone else at the school talking about him. They don't want to compromise a criminal investigation.

And if I am right dont want to worsen their liability for not dealing with a person they suspected of sanity issues.

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And without his telling us, or the police telling us, why he did those things, we're not going to know.

You never know...journalists might turn up enough information for us to get a good idea

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The crime itself doesn't make sense

It makes a lot of sense....I basically drew you a picture of how it makes sense

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I do wonder when he dyed or painted his hair red--and why he did that.

Not yet known, but since his hair was red since at least July 5 (the day he posted his pic on adultfriendfinder,com) it might not have to do with his joker persona.
http://www.radaronline.com/category/tags/classicjimbo

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Any ideas of the motives behind these murders ?
Was this his way of protesting unemployment ?

Please note that we already have another thread
for discussion of the right to self defense
and of the best means to do it; accordingly,
please keep discussion of that to a MINIMUM,
devoting your comments to psychology, if u don't mind.

OK. WHATAYATHINK about the killer's motives ??

I think this is exactly what he wanted. To get people to speculate on his motives. To point at each other and call each other the reason. To demonize each other. I think this is the real motive. I am guilty of it to because I want to attempt to stand back and say stop accusing each other for causing this to happen. We are playing right into his motive. We continue to become victims when we do this.

Anti gun activists will use this opportunity to try to push gun regulations. Gun enthusists will feel pressured and demonized by their rights to own guns. His religious views will come into question and what ever they turn out to be the opposing side will point fingers and say, "Look see this is what happens when you become like him."

We are playing right into his game by attempting to answer this question. Why don't we all step back. See it from a humanistic perspective. This was just a person who felt the need to kill others. There is no justifying it. There is not way to prevent it. Let's realize that we can't no matter how strict we become as a society, we can't stop this from happening. There will always be tribal members of our tribe who will kill other members senselessly.

Don't point the fingers, don't suggest who the demons are. Don't accuse guns being the problem. You only make more victims of this crime when you do this. You demonize law abiding people when you lump them into his group. As if all gun abiding citizens are just one hair trigger away from doing the same thing if they are allowed to carry guns.

No only those who don't respect other human lives do these sorts of things. It doesn't matter if they are politicians or street kids. Why one is justifyable and the other evil baffles me.

This is a human killing humans. Forget the motive.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

So far I have seen no reports of how he was doing in his first year of the program, all the talk of his brilliance and success are from before that .

It was either on TV or in the newspaper that we learn that Holmes took his preliminaries, did not do well on them and was put on probation.

At least part of the prelims was oral. I've heard nothing else about these exams.

Doing well in course work and actually being able to think as a scientist are two distinct things. He was good in course work, but could he actually go into a lab and perform a meanful experiment?

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

He asked to withdraw, they did not ask him to leave.

He asked to withdraw after he was put on probation. That's like an employee quting his job, before he's fired.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

And if one graduate program wasn't right for him, he could just have gone into another program. This man had options ...

While in the neuroscience program, Holmes was supported by a traineeship from the NIH. This traineeship supported 5 other graduate students in the USA.
With this traineeship, Holmes had free tuition and a stipend to live on. Upon withdrawal from the PhD program, he lost the traineeship and the salary.

He had no other academic opportunities and he didn't have the $$ to pay either his tuition or his living expenses, without the traineeship.

The whole incident in the theater has also left the University in a major hole relataive to the funding of either more fellowships or traineeships, which incidentally are paid for with our American tax dollars.

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@firefly,

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He wasn't a recluse. He just wasn't overly social with the others in his Ph.D. program. But he had just moved to Colorado within the past year to attend that program. He seems to have had friends back in California.

I think it's kind of a knee-jerk to that people who do these things are described as "loners". The press wants a sound bite so they talk to anyone in the area. "He was a loner" is just a way to say "I didn't pay any attention to him" without sounding like a jerk. Not that they are jerks. Nobody can pay attention to everybody, some people attract our attention and others don't.

It all makes me think of how shyness is viewed these days -- as something worthy of a diagnosis. On parenting forums I visit someone will post "My kid is so shy! What do I do?" and invariably the first response is "Have them tested for autism."

Shyness is seen as abnormal and suspicious.

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@Miller,

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With this traineeship, Holmes had free tuition and a stipend to live on. Upon withdrawal from the PhD program, he lost the traineeship and the salary.

He had no other academic opportunities and he didn't have the $$ to pay either his tuition or his living expenses, without the traineeship.

When he withdrew from the program, at the end of June, he didn't need a stipend or tuition--he was already involved in his plans to commit mass murders. He knew he wasn't going back to school.

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@Miller,

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It was either on TV or in the newspaper that we learn that Holmes took his preliminaries, did not do well on them and was put on probation.

Don't believe everything you're hearing or reading right now--the university has refused to comment, and they would be the only reliable source of information about that. There has been no reliable statement, or any statement for that matter, coming directly from the university, about his failing prelims or orals, and being put on probation, as the reason he suddenly withdrew.

People are looking for some sort of precipitating event, like academic failure, to explain why he might commit such a violent and senseless crime. But he could have been thinking about this, and planning it in his mind, for years.

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These crimes, both the shootings, and the booby-trapping of his apartment with explosives, are acts of terrorism and, as such, might have a variety of motives.

According to the Aurora Police Chief, Holmes spend at least 4 months buying the equipment for his shooting spree and gathering the explosives in his apartment. There was nothing impulsive about this crime. This was a carefully planned, well thought out, meticulously prepared demonstration of his ability to commit extremely violent, and rather dramatic acts--at the very least, it's a demonstration of his power, and maybe that was his whole point.

We don't know whether he really did say, "I am the Joker," but the Joker does represent violence, the Joker does represent chaos, and the ability to disrupt order and complacency. And that's just what this man did. He brought chaos and unpredictability into that movie theater, and had someone unknowingly entered his apartment, he would have created chaos and a sense of unpredictability there. He shattered illusions of safety and order by bringing a harsh destructive reality into a place where fantasies of violence are indulged--a movie theater. And that may have been his purpose.

Whether he felt compelled to carry out his plan as the result of grandiose and delusional thinking, or command hallucinations, or a possible mood disorder, remains to be seen. Whether this was a political statement of sorts, perhaps coupled with psychiatric problems, remains to be seen.

In court this morning he appeared somewhat dazed, or out of it, or exhausted, or heavily medicated. He was expressionless and seemed to have difficulty holding his eyes open. His hair was dyed a bizarre bright carrot red/orange. He is being held without bail. His next court appearance is next week, and, at that time he will be formally charged.

If they can't mount an insanity defense for this man, and the careful, and meticulous, and lengthy planning of his crimes works against the defense in that regard, I don't know how else this man could be defended. If he's legally sane, and he can be both psychotic and legally sane, his actions are pretty indefensible.

I would imagine the next step is to establish his competency to stand trial--they have to be sure he understands the nature of the court proceedings, understands the charges against him, and can cooperate with his attorney.

We're not going to know of his motives for quite some time, and nothing about those motivational forces is obvious right now.

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@vikorr,

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Have you met paranoid schizophrenics, or people suffering paranoid delusions? Their delusions are usually quite obvious, because they can't help speaking about them, or reacting to events in paranoid ways...and they don't make any sense

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The reason that people with severe/delusional paranoia can't hide it, is that they think it's the actual state of things, and they react to such...the reactions themselves give things away, let alone the statements they make.

Do you remember David Berkowitz, the "Son of Sam" killer? A psychiatric report prepared as part of his competency evaluation found him to be delusional and paranoid. But, throughout his lengthy killing spree, and until the time of his arrest, Berkowitz had been working at his job in the post office. He managed to function, and he managed to conceal his crimes, despite being delusional and paranoid.

Because paranoids are often guarded, and secretive, they don't always talk about their delusions, and their thinking may not be otherwise obviously disordered or illogical.

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It does look like the red hair might be connected to some identification or obsession with The Joker--particularly the old Joker, Cesar Romero.

http://edgecdn.americanprofile.com/66937-cesar-romero-batman__crop-landscape-534x0.jpg

http://www.amoeba.com/dynamic-images/blog/Charles/joker-cesar-romero.jpg

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2012/07/20/0723-james-holmes-orange-wm-1.jpg

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2012/07/20/0720-james-holmes-orange-prison-wm-2.jpg

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The Joker's Motivations
"Some people just want to watch the world burn," Michael Caine's Alfred says of The Joker in The Dark Knight. One of the things that made Ledger's character so enrapturing was simply the fact that he had no discernable motivations other than chaos and destruction -- a departure, many people incorrectly think, from past performances. But watch Romero carefully: While Batman: The Movie has a loose plot centered around turning the members of the United Nations into powder, the Joker himself is principally entertained by his own misdeeds. He takes as much pleasure in electrocuting The Riddler and The Penguin, for instance, as he does in ordering a submarine to launch missiles at Batman and Robin. Like Ledger's Joker, Romero's is a "dog chasing cars," reveling only in chaos, whether it be exacted upon his enemies or his allies.
http://blogs.amctv.com/movie-blog/2008/07/heath-ledgers-j.php

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"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes...chaos. I'm an agent of chaos." ―The Joker

He definitely brought chaos into that movie theater--he proved he could do it.

But why?

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In the statement read Monday by Damiani, Arlene Holmes clarified that she had been awoken by a reporter at 5:45 a.m. on Friday, and asked if she knew anything about a shooting in Aurora. Holmes said she did not, and Arlene Holmes said the reporter asked if she was Arlene Holmes and if her son was James Holmes.

In the written statement, Arlene Holmes says that is when she responded with, “Yes, you have the right person,” referring to herself. Arlene Holmes said the reporter asked for a comment about the shooting in Aurora, but that she could not comment until she knew learned more, and if the person involved was in fact her son.

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@firefly,

But I distinctly remember that in the old original Batman comic books the Joker's hair was a bright green.

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MOTIVES For the Colorado Theater Murders ?

lunacy

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@Lustig Andrei,

true, in the comics and all the films (except the tv movie) his hair was green

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@djjd62,

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/batman-shooting-suspect-appears-in-court/story-fnd12peo-1226433431711If you go half way down this link - you will find an interesting short video of the guy speaking at a science camp.

He was interested in Temporal Illusion 'that allows you to change the past', and that his mentor 'studies subjective experience, which is what takes place inside the mind, as opposed to the external role'.

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@Krumple,

I keep running into all these videos on youtube about him being a victim of some kind of mindcontrol phenomina which to me is total bullshit. Not sure where people come up with this nonsense.

They use his court appearance as fuel for their theory, but as I see it, he is playing as if he were crazy so he might get mercy of the court if he pretends to be insane. I think he is cold and calculating and we know he has at least some intellect, he was working on a PHD. Sure he wasn't successful but he got 3/4 of the way there.

In my opinion this is just another stunt to get people worked up and speculating who he is and what is going on. I bet he knows that if he acts this way rumors will fly around, just like they are. He is playing all those watching and even while he sits in jail he has everyone worked up, worried, threatened and becoming victims over and over again.

People will be worried to go to the movies. People will be worried to meet people with different unusual hair colors. All sorts of finger pointing and discriminations will arise. The victims are not ONLY those who lost their lives in that theater that night, but they are continously being made by all these speculations.

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@Krumple,

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he has everyone worked up, worried, threatened...

That's one reason why people commit acts of terrorism, that's part of their aim.

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but as I see it, he is playing as if he were crazy so he might get mercy of the court if he pretends to be insane.

He's going to be evaluated by psychiatrists and psychologists who are experienced in differentiating malingerers, who are faking it, from those who have psychiatric conditions. So, it doesn't matter much how he appears in court.

If he is found competent to stand trial, the court process will continue. If he is found to be incompetent, he will be remanded to a facility for the criminally insane until he is found competent to proceed.

There are limits to how much mercy this man will receive. There are only a limited number of possible outcomes in this case.

1. If he is never found competent to stand trial, he will remain for life in a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane.

2. If he is found not guilty by reason of insanity, he will be remanded to a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane for an indefinite period of time, until he is deemed no longer dangerous. In his case, because of the nature and magnitude of his crimes, he will never be deemed not to be a danger, and he will remain there for the rest of his life.

3. He will be found guilty of first degree murder and attempted murder and will either receive the death penalty or life in prison without parole.

He's not going to be acquitted of all the charges they will lodge against him, unless the defense can prove that it was someone else who fired the guns in the theater and it was someone else who booby-trapped his apartment.

So this man will either be locked up, for the rest of his life, in either a prison or a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane--and there isn't all that much difference between the two types of facilities, those types of hospitals are akin to prisons, particularly for someone who has committed crimes of this nature and magnitude--or he will be executed.

So what kind of mercy are you worried he will get?

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@Krumple,

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I think he is cold and calculating and we know he has at least some intellect

A person can be cold, calculating and intelligent and still be crazy. If they weren't they'd be easy to spot and we wouldn't have this problem.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

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he has everyone worked up, worried, threatened...

That's one reason why people commit acts of terrorism, that's part of their aim.

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but as I see it, he is playing as if he were crazy so he might get mercy of the court if he pretends to be insane.

He's going to be evaluated by psychiatrists and psychologists who are experienced in differentiating malingerers, who are faking it, from those who have psychiatric conditions. So, it doesn't matter much how he appears in court.

If he is found competent to stand trial, the court process will continue. If he is found to be incompetent, he will be remanded to a facility for the criminally insane until he is found competent to proceed.

There are limits to how much mercy this man will receive. There are only a limited number of possible outcomes in this case.

1. If he is never found competent to stand trial, he will remain for life in a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane.

2. If he is found not guilty by reason of insanity, he will be remanded to a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane for an indefinite period of time, until he is deemed no longer dangerous. In his case, because of the nature and magnitude of his crimes, he will never be deemed not to be a danger, and he will remain there for the rest of his life.

3. He will be found guilty of first degree murder and attempted murder and will either receive the death penalty or life in prison without parole.

He's not going to be acquitted of all the charges they will lodge against him, unless the defense can prove that it was someone else who fired the guns in the theater and it was someone else who booby-trapped his apartment.

So this man will either be locked up, for the rest of his life, in either a prison or a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane--and there isn't all that much difference between the two types of facilities, those types of hospitals are akin to prisons, particularly for someone who has committed crimes of this nature and magnitude--or he will be executed.

So what kind of mercy are you worried he will get?

I am not saying that I think he should have mercy. I am saying he thinks if he behaves this way that they will be more lenient on him. I agree with you, that no matter what they find he should lose his right to be free amoung the rest of the tribe. He has forfeit his rights and why should we trust him to be a member of society?

I think you are right, that he will be given the death penalty and in this case it would be justifyable. But this doesn't stop people from saying he is a victim of some mind control phenomina or that he was not actually under his own will to do this act so he is a victim as well.

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MOTIVES For the Colorado Theater Murders ?

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