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Does Obama actually understand business?

 
 
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 07:17 am
Obama - 'If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen'

Quote:
There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.


I am actually a bit surprised to see a sitting President make a series of statements like this... Can you guys help me understand this statement because it's just not true at all. Having customers and employees does not make a business successful. Making a product that people want, thus becoming customers and hiring people to actualize your goals and further your business does not make it happen. It's the owner that makes a business successful. Somebody else does not "make it happen".

If that is the case, I would really, really like someone else to make my business successful. That way I don't have to do anything else but collect the money.

Any volunteers?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 10,569 • Replies: 154

 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 07:21 am
@McGentrix,
Unless you're a hunter-gatherer, then his statement is correct. Everything is woven together. The farmer depends on the blacksmith who depends on the miner who depends on the farmer to get his food.

Trucking companies depend on the highways, which depend on the government collecting taxes, which depends on the citizens paying taxes, which depends on the citizens being prosperous enough to keep the economy moving.

McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 09:32 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Unless you're a hunter-gatherer, then his statement is correct. Everything is woven together. The farmer depends on the blacksmith who depends on the miner who depends on the farmer to get his food.

Trucking companies depend on the highways, which depend on the government collecting taxes, which depends on the citizens paying taxes, which depends on the citizens being prosperous enough to keep the economy moving.


That doesn't make any sense. Lets look at your example... who will be the successful farmer? The one that saved quality seeds from last season, plowed his fields at the right time, planted his seeds early enough in the season to get them to grow, watered them regularly, chose a good pesticide, harvested the plants and sold them at market for a good value because his customers know he has a good product.
-or-
the farmer that buys seeds at last minute, doesn't fallow his fields, doesn't take care of his equipment, has no idea what fertilizer is, plants what ever seeds he wants where ever he feels yet when his plants grow and he then harvests and sells his crappy produce at over inflated prices and has no customers...

Both use the blacksmith, the roads, etc, yet one farmer has a product people want and sells it at a price people are willing to buy it at.

One farmer will be successful and one will not. It is not because they had roads to drive on. It's because the owner, or farmer in this case, works his ass off to be successful. It's not because he had a road to drive on.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:02 am
@McGentrix,
Probably the farm that uses the high-yield, drought resistant seeds developed by the major Ag University, which in turn got grants from the government.

Probably the farmer that uses the local farmers' Co-Op in order to dilute the risk of low prices, and to assist with collective bargaining.
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:38 am
@DrewDad,
I understand now. I am sure that any example I give will be answered as such, so I will not continue trying to demonstrate such things.

Do you really believe that people and businesses can not be successful without the government then?
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:42 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Do you really believe that people and businesses can not be successful without the government then?

Yes. I do believe that. I don't believe that businesses and people can be successful without modern roads, telecommunications infrastructure, police, firefighters, and healthy, free citizens.

I believe we are more successful when we work together.
Rockhead
 
  4  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:43 am
@McGentrix,
you can't save seeds.

they are proprietary...

if you are caught saving seeds, you will be banned from purchasing further products, and will become a very unsuccessful farmer fast.

maybe you should use things you understand for examples...
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:45 am
@Rockhead,
Really? You're to going to nit-pick an arbitrary example? Thanks for that bit of uselessness Rockhead.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:46 am
@McGentrix,
you should use examples that support your claim.

it works better that way...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Cd2q8Jf6k
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:46 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
The one that saved quality seeds from last season


Ironic that you say this, as Monsanto doesn't allow you to save seeds from last season when you buy their products.

Quote:

One farmer will be successful and one will not. It is not because they had roads to drive on.


In fact, those roads being in good condition is a critical factor for both successful and not-so-successful businesses. They BOTH rely upon others for their success.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:47 am
@McGentrix,
Hey, it's your premise that a lone wildcatter can be wildly successful without the hard work of other people contributing.

Too bad for you if you can't come up with a single example to support your premise.

Perhaps it isn't Obama that doesn't really understand economics.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:49 am
Quote:

Do you really believe that people and businesses can not be successful without the government then?


Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!!

How could they possibly be? Without government, and the rules and regulations it provides, I will simply come take everything your business earns, and you'll have to repel armed attack to stop me. There would be no banking system without government. There is no disaster relief without government. There are no utilities without government.

Just an ignorant, ignorant statement on your part. Do YOU actually understand how society works? How government is essential for a stable human society, and always has been?

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 11:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Do you have some contact info on where I can send a request to make my business successful then? I'd sure like it if the govt would do that for me. I hate having to work so hard at trying to be successful when all I really had to do was become a democrat and believe in the magic govt dust.

You can post that info here if you like. I am sure other small business owners would also like to have the govt make their businesses successful as well.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 11:14 am
@McGentrix,
Yes, everybody working hard together is what makes us successful.

You work hard for me, I work hard for you, and our productivity goes up and up, and we can afford more stuff because stuff gets cheaper.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 11:18 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Do you have some contact info on where I can send a request to make my business successful then? I'd sure like it if the govt would do that for me.


The government provides the environment for YOU to make your business successful. They have already done this, no letter on your part is necessary. Simply attempt to do business using a common currency, drive down a government-maintained road, utilize a part of our national banking system to pay another business, or go a single day without having armed guards on location to prevent ruffians like me from murdering you and taking all of your money.

Quote:
I hate having to work so hard at trying to be successful when all I really had to do was become a democrat and believe in the magic govt dust.


This is tripe and you know it. C'mon. You've been doing much better in discussions lately, no need to backslide now.

Quote:
You can post that info here if you like. I am sure other small business owners would also like to have the govt make their businesses successful as well.


Countless numbers of them already have. They didn't have to write letters, either - it's THAT efficient a system!

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 11:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
One of the problems here, as I see it, is that the govt is available to everyone. Therefore every business has the same basic foundation. They have access to roads, infrastructure, banking, military, etc. Yet most new businesses fail to become successful. Few businesses actually become successful and I do not believe that those successes are to be considered because someone from the government helped them or that they had roads to drive on. They became successful because they owner worked their asses off, had the drive and ambition to succeed and did not give up during hard times.

Don't forget that everything the government does derives from the taxes that people pay them. No taxes, no roads. No taxes, no military. No taxes, no Govt. Who pays the taxes? The people. Who pays more taxes? Successful people. So, while I understand that the underlying infrastructure of education, roads, military etc are part of the foundation of a successful business, they are available to all and yet only a small percentage of businesses become successful due to the people that run the companies. Not because of the government.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 11:56 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

One of the problems here, as I see it, is that the govt is available to everyone. Therefore every business has the same basic foundation. They have access to roads, infrastructure, banking, military, etc. Yet most new businesses fail to become successful. Few businesses actually become successful and I do not believe that those successes are to be considered because someone from the government helped them or that they had roads to drive on.


Well, the roads (and security, and system of laws, and banking system) provided us by our functional gov't help everybody. Nobody is claiming that businesses are ONLY successful because of these things - certainly, Obama didn't say that. But your business couldn't be successful WITHOUT those things.

Therefore, it's entirely appropriate to point out that we're all in this together, and even the most successful individual has had a lot of assistance from everyone else over the years. No American is an island.

Quote:
Don't forget that everything the government does derives from the taxes that people pay them. No taxes, no roads. No taxes, no military. No taxes, no Govt. Who pays the taxes? The people. Who pays more taxes? Successful people.


Wuh oh. You may want to watch out with that last sentence, in regards to Romney. ****** paid a lower tax rate than I did over the last few years, and I'm quite sure there are several years in his returns where he manipulated the system to pay nothing at all. Statements such as yours can prove to be a real trap for the guy.

Quote:
So, while I understand that the underlying infrastructure of education, roads, military etc are part of the foundation of a successful business, they are available to all and yet only a small percentage of businesses become successful due to the people that run the companies. Not because of the government.


Sure, but nobody is making the argument you are arguing against - other than the National Review and HotAir, that is.

I would also point out that, if you asked around, I'm sure you would find that the success of many businesses is NOT due only to the people who run the companies, but in large part due to the people who WORK for the companies. Where's your credit for them? Romney didn't run Bain himself, he had a lot of extremely hard-working people running it with him. And they had hard-working people running the stores and factories they invested in, and hard-working people running the cash registers and mopping the floors. Aren't they as much a part of the success story as the owners?

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 12:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Well, the roads (and security, and system of laws, and banking system) provided us by our functional gov't help everybody. Nobody is claiming that businesses are ONLY successful because of these things - certainly, Obama didn't say that. But your business couldn't be successful WITHOUT those things.

Therefore, it's entirely appropriate to point out that we're all in this together, and even the most successful individual has had a lot of assistance from everyone else over the years. No American is an island.


My point is that these foundations are an equalizer. Everyone has the same foundation and if they do, success can not be attributed to it.

Examine at some of Obama's words:
Quote:
I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.


Yes, there are a lot of smart people out there and there are indeed a lot of hard working people. But, they do not all become successful business owners do they? Many do though, so what is they have done differently to become successful? All have access to the same foundations of education, roads, etc.. Why are some people successful while others aren't? Could it be due to hard work and determination? It can't all be luck.

Quote:
Wuh oh. You may want to watch out with that last sentence, in regards to Romney. ****** paid a lower tax rate than I did over the last few years, and I'm quite sure there are several years in his returns where he manipulated the system to pay nothing at all. Statements such as yours can prove to be a real trap for the guy.


A lower tax rate does not equal less paid. Fix the system, not those that have the ability to overcome it. I am all for a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage of their income. But, the greatest amounts of tax paid does come from those that have been successful in some way. (Business and personal and even those just lucky enough to be born already rich.)

Quote:
Sure, but nobody is making the argument you are arguing against - other than the National Review and HotAir, that is.

I would also point out that, if you asked around, I'm sure you would find that the success of many businesses is NOT due only to the people who run the companies, but in large part due to the people who WORK for the companies. Where's your credit for them? Romney didn't run Bain himself, he had a lot of extremely hard-working people running it with him. And they had hard-working people running the stores and factories they invested in, and hard-working people running the cash registers and mopping the floors. Aren't they as much a part of the success story as the owners?

Cycloptichorn


I am not sure how you can read "If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen." and not be shocked in some small part.

I agree that no man is an island, but some people want a better island and work their entire lives making it happen while others are satisfied living on a squalid island putting forth no effort at all. To say that those who put in years of hard labor should just thank the govt for letting it happen... well, that's a load of BS.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 12:17 pm
@DrewDad,
I can see both sides of this. Yes - to be successful you need others. You need the roads, etc. You need the people you hire, etc.

However, you not going to be successful just because of the others. You end up being successful because you are smart, good at what you do, work hard and sacrifice (and a little lucky). The others help you - but they are not the cause of the success.

The owner - is the one who puts their neck out there - provides the capital and risk - the owner is the one who has everything to lose if it isn't successful. If this business fails, the person building the road will still get paid and have a job, the people this person hires will not lose all their savings invested - they may temporarily not have a job (but will at least get unemployment if they fold) - and they will have the opportunity to look for other employment.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2012 12:21 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Why are some people successful while others aren't? Could it be due to hard work and determination? It can't all be luck.

Could be due to smarts. Could be due to how much support they have available. Could be due to circumstances.

It's not all hard work and determination.
0 Replies
 
 

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