25
   

The distinction between war and murder becomes a fine one...

 
 
NSFW (view)
Ceili
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 12:29 pm
@Joe Nation,
The orangemen were the founding fathers of the KKK. Wonderful folks eh! They brought their hate where ever they went.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:02 pm
@Ceili,
There is not a shred of historical support for such a wild and essentially hateful contention. The modern Klan was "re-founded" by William Simmons, a defrocked Methodist Minister in Georgia in 1915. Neither the Orange Order specifically nor Orangemen in general had anything to do with it.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:22 pm
@Setanta,
Wiki has this about the guy--

Quote:
In the first years of the new Klan just several thousand members enrolled but eventually it became more popular and hundreds of thousands of new members pledged allegiance. The Klan's enemies were Blacks, Jews, Roman Catholics or anybody else who was not a native-born Anglo-Saxon or Celtic Protestant


Which is at least a shred of historical support if it is true as I expect it is.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:26 pm
@Ceili,
Neither Spendi nor I have said anything in favour of the Orange Order. Quite the opposite in fact. We merely pointed out that they're there. And they're not going to go quietly.

The current peace process is working, any idea of imposing a solution on either community would wreck all of that. This is them glaring at each other earlier today. They may be looking daggers at each other, but at least they're not throwing them. Quite a significant display of the Stars and Stripes on the Unionist side.

Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:34 pm
@Setanta,
Hateful.. the irony.
Look into the history of the klan in the prairie provinces. Not only were most of the members orangemen, they were invited by the Orange hall to start up and find new members. And find members they did, Saskatchewan was a hotbed of hate, with huge numbers relative to the population.
I've read about the pre-origins of the Klan in Texas. Again, the majority of the members were also Orangemen/Scots Irish. They hated Catholics, Jews and Blacks in that order.
Look around Ontario and any place in the States with Orange in the title... you'll see these were the hotbeds of racist activities.
I'd say there is more than a shred of evidence. Their manifestos were almost identical.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:45 pm
@Ceili,
What the hell is "the pre-origins of the Klan in Texas" supposed to mean? You know nothing about American history, obviously, and you're just using a pretext to broadcast your own hatefulness. You're also trashing Bommer's thread.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:48 pm
@izzythepush,
Never said you did. I know they are not going anywhere and nor should they. However, Catholics in the north are on the verge of becoming the majority as their birthrate is much larger. In a few years the "British in Ireland' will be outnumbered. Hopefully all hell will not break loose then, again. Maybe then there will be a united country.
Mind you, there are variables, such as if the Euro is strong enough to compete with the Pound.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:48 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

To my way of thinking, Foofie, there was no justification - whatever the perceived gains argued - for bombing Japanese civilians.
I feel much the same about the drone attacks now.


You have every right to your opinion. I am happy though that your opinion is not coming from you as an American. Your being an Australian, there is no reason for me to want you to see my perspective, since my perspective is that of an American. Naturally, many Americans do not agree with me, and could agree with you. Now that saddens me.

Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:53 pm
@Setanta,
Pre-origins... hating the Mexican Catholics. Hatefulness, seriously, how can you claim I am hateful when talking about people who lynched and murdered people because of their skin colour or religion. Spare me your indignation. I can't help it if you want to believe something aside from the truth. Did you bother looking up the Canadian origins of the Klan? Did you read either manifesto? Have you looked around the province of Ontario? Who the hell is Bommer?
Again, conversations take on tangents of their own. If I were to sit with you, would you dictate where the conversation went? Pretty ******* boring...
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:55 pm
@Foofie,
Ike seems to have agreed with Olga.
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  7  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:57 pm
@Setanta,
Why the **** do you give a rats ass if someone is trashing a thread, you being so good at it and all?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 01:58 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
If I were to sit with you, would you dictate where the conversation went?


The answer to that seems pretty obvious when every time Setanta doesn't approve of the conversation the thread is declared either trashed or fucked up.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:04 pm
@Ceili,
I'm not indignant with you, just disgusted by your perpetuation of hatred. The original Klan was formed in Tennesse, it had nothing to do with Texas. When the members of the organization became violent and ran out of the control of the founders, Nathan Bedford Forrest, among other early prominent members, repudiated the organization. The Klan died out in the 1870s. It was resurrected by Simmons, in response to two events. One was the lynching of Leo Frank, a Jew, in Atlanta. Mr. Frank had been accused of murdering a white girl. (Modern criminologists believe that the prosecution's "star witenss" was in fact the murderer.) The other was the wild popularity of the Griffith's motion picture The Birth of a Nation. Based on Dixon's novel The Clansman (and originally entitled The Clansman), the movie contains all the symbolism and imagery we associate with the modern Klan.

There is no basis for your claim about the Klan having been founded by Orangemen, and i can only assume tha you are motivated by some deep-seated bigotry that you cherish toward Orangemen.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:05 pm
Boomer (Boomerang) is the author of this thread. Do me a favor and don't talk to me any longer.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:06 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

They've not moved to Ulster, they were born there, and have lived there for hundreds of years. Do you really think they'll take your solution lying down?

Such a simplistic notion would result in bloodshed on a massive scale. You know nothing of the Unionists' willingness to fight.


So, you give credence to time one's group lives in a land, but you may be ready to give land to the Palestineans, even though Israelis are now removed from the original Zionists by about three, or more generations? Wait, let me correct myself. You are only pointing out that the Unionists won't lie down and play dead, so to speak. And, the same goes for the Jewish Israelis. So, perhaps, there is a double standard, since you accept the Unionists willingness to fight, in the manner you warn of "bloodshed," but like a good European, in my opinion, the Jew can always be eventually pushed aside.

I think you are not really aware of the tenacity of the majority of Israelis, since they just didn't migrate to Israel, a la the Scotch Presbyterians migrated to Northern Ireland, but many Israelis are only a generation or two removed from ancestors that never made it to Israel. They made it to Treblinka, etc., etc.

In my opinion, your double standard is showing. So, if there is bloodshed in Israel, because the Palestineans are emboldened by Euroepeans taking up their cause, will European pro-Palestinean activists quickly do a Pontius Pilate at that point and claim no involvement?

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:09 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You're not sure, because you know nothing about the situation. The Orange Order still marches to celebrate victory of the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. They are vehemently anti-Catholic, and some class the pope as the anti-Christ. The Unionist community is the majority in Northern Ireland, and a lot of them are members of the Orange Order.

Quote:
The Orange Institution (more commonly known as the Orange Order, the Orange Lodge or the Orangemen) is a Protestant fraternal organisation based in Northern Ireland, though it has lodges throughout the British Isles, the Commonwealth and the United States. Founded in 1796 near the village of Loughgall in County Armagh, its name is a tribute to the Dutch-born Protestant King of England, Ireland and Scotland William of Orange, who defeated the army of Catholic James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.

Politically, the Orange Order is strongly linked to unionism. Critics have accused the Orange Order of being sectarian, triumphalist and supremacist. As a Protestant society, non-Protestants cannot become members. Catholics, and those whose close relatives are Catholic, are banned from becoming members.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order


So, what is your point? Don't mess with tough guys?

0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:11 pm
@Setanta,
Okeedokee
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:22 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You really are a moron. The peace process is working, your ridiculous idea, would kick it all off. You'd find it very difficult to pacify the Unionists. A lot of them served with the UDR, and know how to put up a fight.


I still do not get your point, other than believing you are saying that the effort is not worth any sacrifice. Likely not; however, what if another nation came to help the Catholic minority?

What name can be attached to the Unionists to make them appear worthy of defeat? We already used Jap, Hun, Gook, Kraut in other wars. Possibly "Archie Lovers"? Couldn't you see young men enlisting to "see some action, and fight those anti-Popeite Archie Lovers." I personally think the Unionists would then have bit off more than they can chew, so to speak.

Naturally, this would be in a perfect world, and likely would never happen. Well, in my opinion, the Unionists are just suffering from overactive testes, and the excess testosterone makes their chins jut out in hubris during their Orange Day parades.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Jul, 2012 02:25 pm
@Foofie,
Another nation did help the catholic minority. They sent money to buy bombs and other armaments. Then when terrorism came to their shores they changed the rules.
 

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