The distinction between war and murder becomes a fine one...

When General Dwight D. Eisenhower, then the Supreme Allied Commander, was informed by the Secretary of War that the atomic bomb was going to be used, he later recalled saying it was unnecessary because Japan was already largely defeated. Eisenhower said the bomb was "no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." At one point after the war he said bluntly, "It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

No it doesn't. The Constitution is very clear on killing Americans without due process of the law; Obama is just plain wrong. Things couldn't be less subtle. Obama is riding roughshod with the Constitution, not to mention international, which he's violating when he whacks foreigners that way. Worse yet: since Obama is a professor of constitutional law, I must assume his transgressions are intentional and premeditated.

What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

To me, the question is not whether the US has the constitutional right to wage war against individuals perceived as enemies, who are living in these tribal areas, it is the morality of using such imperfect weapons (drones) which "accidentally" kill so many innocent civilians. My question is: does the elimination of the perceived enemies of the US justify the deaths of so many innocent people? To me the human rights of those people is a far more important consideration. How much, if any, "collateral damage" (horrible term) is acceptable to those of you who support the drone attacks?

Foofie wrote:

Quite necessary when the Japanese were ready to fight to the last person. We saved American lives and Japanese lives. ....

Quote:

When General Dwight D. Eisenhower, then the Supreme Allied Commander, was informed by the Secretary of War that the atomic bomb was going to be used, he later recalled saying it was unnecessary because Japan was already largely defeated. Eisenhower said the bomb was "no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." At one point after the war he said bluntly, "It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

http://teacher.scholastic.com/scholasticnews/indepth/upfront/debate/index.asp?article=0514

To my way of thinking, Foofie, there was no justification - whatever the perceived gains argued - for bombing Japanese civilians.
I feel much the same about the drone attacks now.

Joe Nation wrote:

Yet we allowed the tragedy to continue until both sides fell over from the exhaustion of the struggle and the Six Counties are still not free to be Irish.

There's a lot of people living in Ulster who don't want to be Irish. What do you suggest doing with them?

What the British government did in Ireland was terrible, but it really doesn't come close to what your lot did in Vietnam.

Quote:

When General Dwight D. Eisenhower, then the Supreme Allied Commander, was informed by the Secretary of War that the atomic bomb was going to be used, he later recalled saying it was unnecessary because Japan was already largely defeated. Eisenhower said the bomb was "no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." At one point after the war he said bluntly, "It wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

I think we ought to leave the Commander in Chief in Europe and two time President with the last word on the matter.

Tell them that they are free to live in Ireland, but if they choose to do so, they are going to have to be subject to the Irish government.

If I moved to Mexico, I'd accept that I was subject to the Mexican government. I would not insist that Mexico cede part of their territory to the US just so I could continue to be under US jurisdiction.

They've not moved to Ulster, they were born there, and have lived there for hundreds of years. Do you really think they'll take your solution lying down?

Such a simplistic notion would result in bloodshed on a massive scale. You know nothing of the Unionists' willingness to fight.

The distinction between war and murder becomes a fine one...

Obama is riding roughshod with the Constitution, not to mention international,
which he's violating when he whacks foreigners that way.

oralloy wrote:

Tell them that they are free to live in Ireland, but if they choose to do so, they are going to have to be subject to the Irish government.

If I moved to Mexico, I'd accept that I was subject to the Mexican government. I would not insist that Mexico cede part of their territory to the US just so I could continue to be under US jurisdiction.

Both those statements are ridiculous. In the first case because the Prods won't have it. As a fact.

In the case of the second because there is no comparison between moving to Mexico and having lived and worked all your life in N.I. like your fathers before you. They are not moving to N.I. They are rooted there. You have to think of them as voluntary immigrants to compare the two cases.

It's not like Ireland is a rogue nation or anything.

That's quite witty.

The Orange Institution (more commonly known as the Orange Order, the Orange Lodge or the Orangemen) is a Protestant fraternal organisation based in Northern Ireland, though it has lodges throughout the British Isles, the Commonwealth and the United States. Founded in 1796 near the village of Loughgall in County Armagh, its name is a tribute to the Dutch-born Protestant King of England, Ireland and Scotland William of Orange, who defeated the army of Catholic James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.

Politically, the Orange Order is strongly linked to unionism. Critics have accused the Orange Order of being sectarian, triumphalist and supremacist. As a Protestant society, non-Protestants cannot become members. Catholics, and those whose close relatives are Catholic, are banned from becoming members.

oralloy wrote:

One of the main reasons Hiroshima was selected as a target for the A-bomb was its great military value. The city was Japan's main military port, and was the launching point of most of their genocidal invasions of their neighbors. The city held tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers, and was also the headquarters in charge of repelling any US invasion in the southern half of the Japanese home islands.

Nagasaki was an industrial center, and its huge factories were devoted to the production of weapons and equipment for the Japanese military.

According to Ike those factors were long out of date.

The project to get those two bombs, and there were only two, was a very long and costly one.

It was started when it was thought necessary and if it wasn't necessary at the flashpoint, as the President had said, it suggests that forces were in play which the President refrained from controlling. Or was possibly unable to. As many a Roman Emperor often refrained from juggling with the hot potatoes of his own time.

And you do so because you are on that side of the fence, the patriotic side, which justifies the use of the Bomb on two defenceless cities rather than the Imperial Palace: which one might presume you wished to save so that you could all visit the place when the dust settled and be photographed there and stroll around it like as if you owned the place.

Rooted there or not, it is still silly of them to refuse to accept the jurisdiction of the Irish government if they want to live in Ireland.

What would they do if the Irish government took control? Go on a murder spree and kill a bunch of babies??

You're not sure, because you know nothing about the situation.

The Orange Order still marches to celebrate victory of the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. They are vehemently anti-Catholic, and some class the pope as the anti-Christ. The Unionist community is the majority in Northern Ireland, and a lot of them are members of the Orange Order.

Quote:

The Orange Institution (more commonly known as the Orange Order, the Orange Lodge or the Orangemen) is a Protestant fraternal organisation based in Northern Ireland, though it has lodges throughout the British Isles, the Commonwealth and the United States. Founded in 1796 near the village of Loughgall in County Armagh, its name is a tribute to the Dutch-born Protestant King of England, Ireland and Scotland William of Orange, who defeated the army of Catholic James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.

Politically, the Orange Order is strongly linked to unionism. Critics have accused the Orange Order of being sectarian, triumphalist and supremacist. As a Protestant society, non-Protestants cannot become members. Catholics, and those whose close relatives are Catholic, are banned from becoming members.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order