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Are there are no heroes in our world?

 
 
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 03:06 pm
It is important to remember the good, the honest, and the admirable qualities. But truth is the judge in determining the heroes from the average population. Truth is not biased; it is not fictions; it is not pessimistic; nor is it always good.

If you look at any hero in this world, whether they are historical figures who have deceased, or is currently living, you can find faults and foibles at one time or another during the course of their lifetime.

No, there are no heroes. There are only humans and heroic moments.
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Type: Question • Score: 10 • Views: 9,117 • Replies: 107
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parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 03:27 pm
@Rorschach,
You assume that heroes must always be heroes.

I consider that a false assumption. A hero is merely someone that did an heroic act at a time it was required.
Rorschach
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 03:41 pm
@parados,
You've gotten too soft on defining who a hero is.
There are humans who did an heroic act at a time it was required, but then the next moment or before the time of heroic deed, no matter, they committed an evil. If such individuals are considered heroes, then people are deluding themselves.
Look at Thomas Jefferson, for example, Thomas Jefferson kept slaves and he also wrote declaration of independence. The deed of writing the declaration of independence is of respect, but what of keeping the slaves?

Humans are complicated and imperfect, and therefore not hero material.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 04:09 pm
@Rorschach,
Right on, Roschach...only heroic acts by complex humans capable of cowardly acts as well.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 04:12 pm
@Rorschach,
By your definition, the word hero doesn't exist.

And yet it does.......
Rorschach
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 04:39 pm
@parados,
Does it?

Next time you hear someone or read about someone who did so and so deeds, are they really heroes?
In actuality, just a watered down concept of hero.
All I have seen is society diminish the ideal standards that make up a hero. And the motive behind that is simple. It benefits society to have the concept of hero grounded in reality, as an ideal idol, as an example to live by.
Nevertheless, the reality is that, such "hero" is fictitious, and just a fabricated phony. The truth is, however, their deed of heroic proportions is definitely need of praise and remembrance, and to be seen as a good model.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 07:04 pm
I got to research a few of the living, and deceased recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor for a presentation I did while still on active duty.
One thing that several of them had in common was the way they described what motivated them to act in spite of withering incoming fire and tremendous physical injury.

At least 3 of them said, in so many words that they didn't see themselves as heros - they were people who saw their buddies in trouble and got royally pissed off! that stuck with me. It didn't make them any less heroic to me in what they did - it just made them more human.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 08:05 pm
@snood,
Quote:
I got to research a few of the living, and deceased recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor for a presentation I did while still on active duty.


That's like letting the fox research the hen house, Snood.

How many of these "Congressional Medals of "Honor" are really just war crimes, acts of genocide like, say, the following?

Quote:

The Deeper Meaning Of An Apology
by Bob Smith, April, 2001


The government of China recently demanded an apology from President Bush for an incident where a U.S. spy plane allegedly crashed into a Chinese fighter jet causing the death of the fighter pilot. While the U.S. Government refused to issue an apology to the Chinese government, China did receive a "statement of regret."

While a formal Presidential apology carries more weight and has more meaning then a "statement of regret," an apology is issued for something that you caused and have taken responsibility for. A "statement of regret" relates to something that happened to the other person or group that you did not cause. It is offered so as to comfort, much in the same way words of condolence are offered for the death of a relative. This is not to say that regret means "too bad" or "we're sorry." Instead, regret relates more to a feeling of remorse due to an "incident."

Presidential apologies have been given to other governments and to U.S. citizens. Recent examples are the apologies to Japanese Americans for internment camps coupled with $1.5 million in reparations for the theft of their property during WWII and to African Americans for slavery and the Tuskegee medical experiments.

America's second class citizens, the Indians, have long asked for a Presidential apology for the 1890 massacre of over 300 American Indian prisoners of war at Wounded Knee, South Dakota. Instead, what wa given was a 1990 statement of "deep regret" for the massacre.

From a letter to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs dated April 12,1920, three star General Nelson A. Miles (who was in command of the 500 soldiers that massacred the POWs) I quote:

"The present seems to me of imperative importance and justice, namely, to atone in part for the cruel and unjustifiable massacre of Indian men, and innocent women and children at Wounded Knee on the Red Cloud Reservation."

Later in the letter he stated, "I earnestly request that these measures be urged upon the action of the Congress."

Instead of an apology to the Sioux, the U.S. Government:

Awarded 20 Congressional Medals of Honor to those soldiers that participated in this wholesale slaughter
Erected a monument to the few soldiers that died at Wounded Knee at Ft. Riley, Kansas
Attached a battle streamer to flags on display in the White House, Pentagon, West Point and Army bases through out the world.

Incredibly, the Wounded Knee Massacre is listed in the Army record as the "Battle of Wounded Knee." And, it is a further travesty to have the 29 names of American Indians that have been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor to be listed on the same roll with the 20 heroes of Wounded Knee.

The United State Congress passed Concurrent Resolution #153 in October, 1990 to recognize Wounded Knee as a massacre and issued a statement of deep regret.

How can the Chinese Government expect the United States Congress and President to act with honor when we cannot even act with honor toward the American Indians?

http://www.dickshovel.com/smith.html
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 08:21 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
I got to research a few of the living, and deceased recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor for a presentation I did while still on active duty.


That's like letting the fox research the hen house, Snood.

How many of these "Congressional Medals of "Honor" are really just war crimes, acts of genocide like, say, the following?



I know I am intruding; however, I would just like to point out that all heroes in war are in context of an opposing enemy. So, unless one wants to limit the definition of a hero to civilian heroes, then the above JTT point is just a non-sequitor to the thread's question. Remember, the Nazis had heroes too. The Red Baron in WWI was a hero, and killed the enemy (that were our allies).

It could be possible that if there was a medal for crapping on a thread consistently, JTT could be the hero recipient of that medal? Perhaps, the medal would be called the Consistent Defacating Thread Medal (or, CDTM for short)? I would offer that it have a Maple Leaf background connoting JTT's home country. [Foofie starts to hum "Oh Canada, Oh Canada.]
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 08:46 pm
Would someone please define "hero" for me please? It would be nice to have an idea of what the hell we're talking about.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 09:01 pm
@Foofie,
Funny Foofie. And thanks - the chuckle stopped the less than charitable line of thought that JTT feeds.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 09:33 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
A "hero" is someone who bombs the citizenry of three SE Asian countries into oblivion and then whines and kvetches about some of those missing heroes.

A "hero" is someone who sits miles high above the citizenry of three SE Asian countries and bombs them into oblivion.

A "hero" is someone who supports a criminal government that perpetrates these continuing war crimes, these continuing acts of terrorism.

There are lots of American heroes.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 09:54 pm
@JTT,
Will you please cut the stupid ****, JTT. You are seriously begining to get on my nerves (and no doubt the nerves of most of the other posters as well). I ask what is meant to be a serious question and you have to go off on your idiotic vitriolic horseshit! Just quit it right now!!! I want a working definition of the word the 'hero.' And not from you, certainly, pseudo-English expert.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 10:09 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
pseudo-English expert.


Ouch, Merry, I am wounded deeply.

Let me give you some more excellent examples of "heroes". Ronald Reagan, who committed felonies in order to get money to fund the Contras so that these wonderful people, the equivalent to the US's Founding Fathers could,

"... go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children."

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html

Having had so much exposure to heroes, one has to wonder why you are acting so perplexed.

But maybe you don't mean 'hero presidents'. Well, there's always the brave pilots who napalmed villages, the brave infantry men who MyLaied village after village.

You only have to look to America. The number of heroes is just multitudinous.

0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 10:36 pm
@snood,
I like that.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jul, 2012 04:04 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Remember, the Nazis had heroes too. The Red Baron in WWI was a hero, and killed the enemy (that were our allies).


This probably best sums up Foofie's grasp of history.

If we're talking about heroes, what about ­Chesley Sullenberger, the pilot who successfully crash landed on the Hudson river saving lots of lives?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jul, 2012 04:08 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
By your definition, the word hero doesn't exist.

And yet it does.......


I agree. The OP, a very incoherent rant, implies that there are not really any such people as heroes. This is mental masturbation. The OP posits that there should be a discussion of people notable for their behavior, and then denies that they deserve any notoriety.
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Jul, 2012 04:25 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Would someone please define "hero" for me please?


I haven't checked any dictionaries, but when I think about what I put into the word "hero" there is one thing that comes first to mind; selflessness.
All action that is selfless and honorable is heroic in nature.

A mother working three jobs just to support her children is no less heroic than someone who does something amazing to get his buddies out of the line of fire, at great risk to his own safety. The latter makes for better stories though..
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jul, 2012 05:24 am
@Lustig Andrei,
A Hero is perhaps someone with a very personnel approach to statistics and probability's...I like that ! Wink
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jul, 2012 07:46 am
@Rorschach,
Quote:
Next time you hear someone or read about someone who did so and so deeds, are they really heroes?
In actuality, just a watered down concept of hero.

What watered down concept? Are some people proclaimed heroes for doing things that aren't really heroic? Yes. Does that mean there are no heroic acts? No.

Quote:
It benefits society to have the concept of hero grounded in reality, as an ideal idol, as an example to live by.
An ideal idol is hardly grounded in reality. Heroes are usually ordinary people that step up and do extraordinary things, often without thinking or concern for themselves. No one other than you seems to be requiring that heroes be perfect at all other times. I don't require my heroes be perfect.

Quote:
Nevertheless, the reality is that, such "hero" is fictitious, and just a fabricated phony.
Perhaps you can find us examples of how people hold up others as if they meet this ridiculous standard you have set. The only thing I am finding phony is your definition of hero and how you think it applies.
0 Replies
 
 

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