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Forgiveness and repentance

 
 
micah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:06 pm
hobitbob wrote:

What "historical and archeological evidence?"


there is much to say here...i think you gain more understanding by doing a google search with the keywords, "historical" "archeological" "evidence" "christianity".
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:08 pm
micah wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Why is something as nebulous as "...til all is fulfilled" the key?


that is your opinion....it is not nebulous to me....a general rule in scripture is to interpret difficult scripture in light of clear scripture



Well then why do you simply dismiss the "...til heaven and earth shall pass?"
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:09 pm
micah wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Re read you posts on this forum. They provide a multitude o'exampla! Very Happy Frank has caught most of them. Certainly the Pauline contradictions to Luke and Mark were obvious even to you.


which specific contradictions?

Well, the most flagant ones were in your failure to recognize (as Frank pointed out) that the Christ figure claims to "complete" Torah, where Paul states that Torah need no longer be followed, due to Chrstianity's morphing into a completely different style of faith (a mystery cult) from Judaism.

In additon, you have negelected to take into account probable intended audiences for the gospels. Mark seems to be directed toward the "Jesus movement" in 1st century Palestine. Luke seems directed toward the Roman converts. Matthew was likely directed toward Mediterranean Hellenes more sophisticated than Luke's audience, more "Greek-ified" if you will. John, which is likely the latest text, is likely directed toward a persecuted minority in Asia Minor and other strongly Roman areas. It is interesting that John and Revelation both were the most hotly debated additions to the canon in the 5th century.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:11 pm
micah wrote:
hobitbob wrote:

What "historical and archeological evidence?"


there is much to say here...i think you gain more understanding by doing a google search with the keywords, "historical" "archeological" "evidence" "christianity".

If you are relying on the net to inform you about this subject, you are already doomed to ignorance. Is that where you are getting your arguments?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:12 pm
micah wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
micah wrote:
i have not distanced myself from the old testament.


Okay Micah -- then you agree with:

Quote:
"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death." Deuteronomy 22:18ff




Don't these things sicken you?


i have already established that those laws are no longer in effect...see my previous posts....again...



But Jesus said they are.

First you tried to get me to take Paul's word over the word of Jesus...and now you are trying to get me to take YOUR word over the word of Jesus.

Now why should I take your word -- rather than the word of Jesus in this matter?
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:14 pm
micah wrote:
hobitbob wrote:

What "historical and archeological evidence?"


there is much to say here...i think you gain more understanding by doing a google search with the keywords, "historical" "archeological" "evidence" "christianity".


Micah, I can find sites on the internet with people who believe in aliens and have arguments for aliens and swear and truly believe they were abducted by aliens...

But that doesn't make it true.

Please stop avoiding the question - tell me what is responsible for you going from being (what sounds like) a normally experienced person to such an extremist.

Ooh! Are you an internet addict? That would explain why you think those websites are valid sources of information, and why you're on all the time...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:17 pm
By the way, Micah, I quoted a passage...

Quote:
"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death." Deuteronomy 22:18ff


...and asked you:

Quote:
Don't these things sicken you?


You never answered.


Even if your fanciful interpretation of what Jesus was saying is correct -- the passage still stands.

Doesn't it sicken you that your god would give this kind of advice to anyone -- whether it still holds or not?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:19 pm
A week or so ago on NPR's Talk of the Nation, the subject was how each generation re-invents Jesus for its own purposes. Micah seems to provide the example of how the later twentieth centruy has re-invented him into something that resembles a combination of action hero and psychotherapist. Smile
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:22 pm
Quote:
Ooh! Are you an internet addict? That would explain why you think those websites are valid sources of information, and why you're on all the time...

Hey, nothing wrong with being a net addict! But I don't look at those disgusting religious sites. No siree...I stick to good clean porn! Very Happy Razz
0 Replies
 
micah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:30 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
Ooh! Are you an internet addict? That would explain why you think those websites are valid sources of information, and why you're on all the time...

Hey, nothing wrong with being a net addict! But I don't look at those disgusting religious sites. No siree...I stick to good clean porn! Very Happy Razz


congratulations!! you are helping to justify scripture!!



"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:32 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
Ooh! Are you an internet addict? That would explain why you think those websites are valid sources of information, and why you're on all the time...

Hey, nothing wrong with being a net addict! But I don't look at those disgusting religious sites. No siree...I stick to good clean porn! Very Happy Razz


*sigh* just when you were starting to impress me...
(Btw, I'm into art history. Unfortunately, I mistakenly took a pre-renaissance Christain art class. It got to the point where if I saw one more Crusifiction scene I thought I'd burst. Now I'm taking Northern Baroque, which is much more entertaining - they are allowed to represent the human figure... Except for the Calvinists.)
0 Replies
 
micah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:34 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
Don't these things sicken you?


honestly, it does not...we are Gods creatures....God is a holy God and his judgment is righteous...
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:35 pm
micah wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Don't these things sicken you?[/qote]

honestly, it does not...we are Gods creatures....God is a holy God and his judgment is righteous...


Woah... Maybe you don't have an internal moral system.
Uh, maybe you should keep blind unquestioning faith.
If you thought g-d wanted you to stone your parents to death would you do it?

Do you believe in Hell? And Satan?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:36 pm
Eh?
That's th other thing I've noticed about fundys..they are quick to tell you you are going to hell. Well, Micha, I'll be sure to save you a seat! Heck, I'll even let you have sloppy seconds from my pet succubus! Wink
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:38 pm
Portal star..I'm being sarcastic! Wink
0 Replies
 
micah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:38 pm
Portal Star wrote:
micah wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Don't these things sicken you?[/qote]

honestly, it does not...we are Gods creatures....God is a holy God and his judgment is righteous...


Woah... Maybe you don't have an internal moral system.
Uh, maybe you should keep blind unquestioning faith.
If you thought g-d wanted you to stone your parents to death would you do it?


thats a big if....we can do "what ifs" all day, but lets not
0 Replies
 
micah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:41 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Eh?
That's th other thing I've noticed about fundys..they are quick to tell you you are going to hell. Well, Micha, I'll be sure to save you a seat! Heck, I'll even let you have sloppy seconds from my pet succubus! Wink


really? i challenge you to find ANYTHING in my posts that even implies ANYONE is going to hell....

i HAVE stated that that judgement is not ours to make...
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:42 pm
Portal Star wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
Ooh! Are you an internet addict? That would explain why you think those websites are valid sources of information, and why you're on all the time...

Hey, nothing wrong with being a net addict! But I don't look at those disgusting religious sites. No siree...I stick to good clean porn! Very Happy Razz


*sigh* just when you were starting to impress me...
(Btw, I'm into art history. Unfortunately, I mistakenly took a pre-renaissance Christain art class. It got to the point where if I saw one more Crusifiction scene I thought I'd burst. Now I'm taking Northern Baroque, which is much more entertaining - they are allowed to represent the human figure... Except for the Calvinists.)

I'm in a graduate seminar on Medieval manuscripts this term that is loads of fun. I took several classes as an undergrad from someone who did her dissertation on exegetical influences in Orazio Gentilsche's paintings. Very Happy
I was really hard pressed to decide between art history and "regular" history. I still use a lot of references to visual culture in my work.
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 05:44 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Portal star..I'm being sarcastic! Wink

Ah. Carry, on then. Nothing to see here.

Ooh, cool. Well, visual history is still a form of history, albeit chosen. But so are words. And pictures are pretty!

Micah - do you believe in hell, and satan?
0 Replies
 
micah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 06:13 pm
Portal Star wrote:

Micah - do you believe in hell, and satan?


yes, hell and satan are real...
0 Replies
 
 

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