Forgiveness and repentance

Just stop "believing" in a god who thinks that human conduct is offensive.

If you have to "believe" in a god -- why not simply "believe" in a god who never is offended by human conduct -- and that human conduct, human morals, and human ethics are something we should decide for ourselves for reasons we see as logical -- not because of divine injunction?

0 Replies

From a Protestant perspective:
I John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
God will forgive us for our sins if we truly repent; by "repent", I mean changing one's attitude and turning away from the sin, not just feeling a bit of guilt or regret but then continuing in a sinful lifestyle.
The basis for Christianity is the belief that Jesus paid the penalty for all sins, so forgiveness is available to anyone who repents and claims His sacrifice. Once a person has (sincerely) accepted Jesus' gift, he/she is clean in God's sight. As we all can observe, though, that doesn't mean that Christians achieve perfection here on earth--sin still interferes with the Christian's ability to fulfill God's plan for his/her life, and even confessed sin bears earthly consequences (broken relationships, low self esteem, etc.) that God may not remove.

0 Replies

Frank, is your real name Lucifer?

0 Replies

Washed in the blood

0 Replies

micah wrote:

Frank, is your real name Lucifer?

Nope! It's Frank.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

micah wrote:
Frank, is your real name Lucifer?

Nope! It's Frank.

ok - I believe you for today!! Rolling Eyes

0 Replies

I don't believe in sin.

But, I do believe in personal moral responsibility.

If you hurt yourself, try not to do it again, learn from your mistakes.

If you hurt others, also learn from your mistakes and ask their forgiveness. Try to do somthing to make it allright with them, if possible, and if not it's part of the learning process.

-------
I don't like the cycle of sinning and redemtion (only through christ) found in religion. It means that you are
A. guilty (soemhow born that way), as in covered in sin-mud and
B. Can only be "clean" again if you follow whatever leaders say Jesus thinks will untarnish you.
Seems like a very spiritually unhealthy cycle.

I like the forced recognition of morality Christianity brings (by saying it aloud you are focusing on what you have done wrong), but not the redemtion. People should face up to their problems, not pretend they (and the damage they've done) will all go away through a belief cycle. (It won't, you will still have your spouse to answer to for cheating, the owner of the dog run over, yourself for being a drug addict, etc.)
You should spend your effort making this life a good one, not storing up for one you don't even know exists.

Can you imagine how cool it would be if instead of weekly prayer, all Christians spent that time benefiting scholarship/the community? Can you imagine how many people could be aided, if instead of counting rosary beads or doing silent prayer on sundays, people volunteered for a soup kitchen? Habitat for humanity? I really believe (based on the bible) that would be preferable to Jesus.

---------
Or you could just sacrafice a virgin, er goat (this is the new testament, after all) and chant.

0 Replies

Portal Star wrote:

I don't believe in sin.

really? well i'd like to know with which yardstick do you measure right and wrong? or do you have different terms for right and wrong??

surely you don't think killing babies is ok.....

so, do you measure right and wrong by some subjective feeling??

0 Replies

micah wrote:

Portal Star wrote:
I don't believe in sin.

really? well i'd like to know with which yardstick do you measure right and wrong? or do you have different terms for right and wrong??

surely you don't think killing babies is ok.....

so, do you measure right and wrong by some subjective feeling??

You seem to think that one cannot consider an act as "wrong" or "unethical" -- without also considering it a "sin."

That is wrong-headed.

There may be no gods.

Or there may be gods -- and the gods may not consider anything we humans do as right or wrong.

"Sin" has to do with offending some god or another.

Frankly, I think it is a pretty poor excuse for a god to be offended my anything a human does.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

micah wrote:
Portal Star wrote:
I don't believe in sin.

really? well i'd like to know with which yardstick do you measure right and wrong? or do you have different terms for right and wrong??

surely you don't think killing babies is ok.....

so, do you measure right and wrong by some subjective feeling??

You seem to think that one cannot consider an act as "wrong" or "unethical" -- without also considering it a "sin."

are you talkin to me? or portal star??

let me ask you the same question? lets leave Gods out of it...where do you draw the line between right and wrong for yourself?? do you obey mans laws merely to avoid punishment and jail?? do you use your own subjective feelings to guide your choices re" right and wrong?

0 Replies

whoops, wrong thread. Just a sec...

Yes, Micah, I use my own morals, which are impeccable. My parents have very good values.

I get my moral base from thinking:
Will this action hurt another human being?
Will this action hurt me?

Morality isn't that hard, it just requires a conciousness of your actions and their effects.

0 Replies

micah wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
micah wrote:
Portal Star wrote:
I don't believe in sin.

really? well i'd like to know with which yardstick do you measure right and wrong? or do you have different terms for right and wrong??

surely you don't think killing babies is ok.....

so, do you measure right and wrong by some subjective feeling??

You seem to think that one cannot consider an act as "wrong" or "unethical" -- without also considering it a "sin."

are you talkin to me? or portal star??

let me ask you the same question? lets leave Gods out of it...where do you draw the line between right and wrong for yourself?? do you obey mans laws merely to avoid punishment and jail?? do you use your own subjective feelings to guide your choices re" right and wrong?

I was talking to you, Micah -- referencing your response to Portal Star.

I decide what is right or wrong for me -- and since I am a member of society,. I obey the laws society deems necessary for its preservation and the greater good of humanity.

I lead an ethical life.

I don't try to get over on people; I am not a cut-throat kind of guy; I am charitable; and I am the kind of person people often call upon for favors. I can be counted on!

0 Replies

It is always a source of amusement and amazement that many people believe that leading an honest and ethical life must spring from a religious perspective and framework.

I disagree. A conscience and an internalized set of values, IMO, is far more efficient in keeping folks on the straight and narrow, than some externalized force.

I do the right thing because I believe that being honorable and forthright in dealing with others is the correct way to live, in a civilized society. I don't NEED anything looking over my shoulder!

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

I decide what is right or wrong for me

this is the heart of the matter....YOU decide...and far be it from me to tell you something you're doing is wrong.. right?

all 3 of you just said you decide for yourself what is right and wrong....

if right and wrong are subjective then raping women and killing innocent babies is ok for those who do such things....with your own logic, what right do you have to tell someone what they are doing is wrong..in their heart they may FEEL theres no problem with what they are doing....

with your logic, there is no yardstick to measure right and wrong, because right and wrong is determined by unique individuals, therefore nothing is WRONG....if a guy is raping women, he's doing it because he believes its ok subjectively.....with your logic, you can't measure his choices by your own standards....you all may rival mother teresa, without an objective yardstick with which to measure right and wrong, right and wrong cease to have meaning, there is just behavior....

so you can see that with your own logic, killing innocent babies is ok....

0 Replies

Phoenix32890 wrote:

It is always a source of amusement and amazement that many people believe that leading an honest and ethical life must spring from a religious perspective and framework.

i enjoy being a source of entertainment but the above is not my believe...

0 Replies

micah wrote:

all 3 of you just said you decide for yourself what is right and wrong....

if right and wrong are subjective then raping women and killing innocent babies is ok for those who do such things....with your own logic, what right do you have to tell someone what they are doing is wrong..in their heart they may FEEL theres no problem with what they are doing....

with your logic, there is no yardstick to measure right and wrong, because right and wrong is determined by unique individuals, therefore nothing is WRONG....if a guy is raping women, he's doing it because he believes its ok subjectively.....with your logic, you can't measure his choices by your own standards....you all may rival mother teresa, without an objective yardstick with which to measure right and wrong, right and wrong cease to have meaning, there is just behavior....

so you can see that with your own logic, killing innocent babies is ok....

As mentioned above, I can see what hurts myself (ex: addiction and why it is wrong), and what hurts other people (ex: rape, killing, theft and why it is wrong.) I am no robot, and can see when other people are in pain and they will usually tell you when you have hurt/offended them!

Few women, after being raped, would thank the agressor and tell all of her friends about it. Clearly, raping a woman would make that woman hurt (both emotionally and physically.)

I don't need to study a book to tell me that.

I think that is a clearer "objective yardstick" than a list of 10 rules (which the religious don't follow all of) and sayings that are ambiguous and have often been misconstrued to lead to war and opression.

Do not hurt yourself, do not hurt others. There is a bible saying along these lines, Do onto others as you would do onto yourself. It's the same principle. As a human, you know what hurts other humans.

0 Replies

Micah

Your responses show that you simply are not thinking.

As Phoenix mentioned, it is not necessary to invent a god in order to be ethical and honest.

And as Portal mentioned -- we can think and decide that our well-being and society's well-being depend on laws and rules of our (human's) making.

Frankly, all those rules and "thou shalt nots" that you think so much of are more than likely the product of humans. So even you religious people are operating the same way we are

Try to think this thing through.

0 Replies

both of you have missed my point.....morality can not be subjective, if it is, morality ceases to exist....therefore killing babies is ok....this concept is not too difficult to grasp??

0 Replies

micah- You are operating under the assumption that the Bible was a divine work, and therefore not the subjective interpretation of mortals attempting to make sense of a world that they did not understand. I do not make that assumption.

0 Replies

Forgiveness and repentance

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know