I'M AN ATHEIST, AND . . . SO ARE YOU . . .

What is interesting is how many threads in this forum center on belief in God or a belief that God doesn't exist.

It's reached a point where there are, apparently, even threads that attempt to parody the argument.

I would like to say I can't fathom why anyone cares what others believe in this regard, but unfortunately I can.

Apparently it's just not enough for a very large number of people to formulate their belief in the existence of God and then move on.

Proselytizing is rampant on both sides of the ledger and why?

The devout will tell us that having found God, it is their duty to lead others to the joyous state of belief.

The unbelievers will tell us that having freed themselves of irrational superstition it is their duty to unshackle others, or, at least, make it hard for the insidious zealots to chain others.

There are two groups of proselytizers, one small in number and one large.

The small number consists of those who hope to derive power and rewards from promoting a belief on this subject: Joel Osteen, Franklin Graham et al and Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher et al.

The second group proselytizes because they themselves are uncertain or they have a bent desire to coerce.

I have never met anyone who I respect who came to their belief about God solely as a result of listening to others.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that no one has found God or atheism as a result of anything posted in this forum on the topic.

I believe in God, but I understand why others do not.

I respect the opinions of thoughtful atheists although I don't agree with them.

I find ludicrous the opinions of childish self-professed atheists who argue that the proof that there is no God is that babies die.

I would hope that there are atheists respect the opinions of thoughtful believers, while finding ludicrous the opinions of childish self-professed believers who insist that their holy scripture is literally the Word of God and that infidels should be put to the sword.

The nonsense of both believers and non-believers is never really about the core question. It is always about the person with whom they are arguing.

That alone should tell us all we need to know about this debate.

Finney: (May I call you Finney?)

One group you mentioned is full of fear.

Joe(you decide which one)Nation

Just one question: Who's the athe-ist one here? I nominate me, because I state unequivocally that I prefer Hydrox and I alone knew the hunting secrets of the unicorn.

I couldn't care less what you call me or how clever you think yourself for calling me Finney.

I would argue they are both full of fear.

Those who are desperate to control the thoughts and actions of others are hardly fearless...but then maybe that's the group you opined were full of fear.

Fun is eevul. Note the trolls who only can be happy when fun is trampled on like a boot in the teeth. Fortunately for my tender sensibilities I have most of them on ignore.

I think you missed a layer or two. I think this thread is not about atheism or religious belief or agnosticism per se, but about the particular arguments that have been raised re atheism vs agnosticism.

It's a meta-satire.

Nope

Actually, Finn...I think you made several excellent points here, but I do find one thought line to be a bit off base.

Early on, you wrote:



You are correct there. There are many who believe a GOD exists...and many who believe there are no gods.

But a little later, you wrote:



It seems to me that you were calling people who "believe a GOD exists" believers...and people who "believe there are no gods"..."unbelievers."

Both seem to be "believers"...just that they "believe" in opposite directions.

There are some people here who do not "believe" in either direction. I am one of them. I do not "believe" there are any gods...and I do not "believe" there are no gods. I just do not think there is enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a "belief" or a guess or an estimate.

The fact that I called attention to that "unbelievers" comment may seem like an insignificant observation, but I suggest it is not.

I notice you people who "believe there is a GOD" often take heat from the group that "believes there are no gods."

So do I for being someone who does not have beliefs in this area...for being an "unbeliever"...for being someone who lacks "beliefs" in either direction.

How sad it is that the obsessors have no venue of their own, and feel compelled to come to a thread like this to attempt to pick their fights.

But i have more important questions. Not only can i find no unicorn at the M & M Meat Market, but i can't find Hydrox cookies in Canada, either. What am i to do ? ! ? ! ? How am i to pursue my liturgy?

There's no fighting, Set, everybody's an atheist, some people just don't know it yet or worse, can't make up their minds.
I reminded of a story from the Irish Rebellion but I can't remember it all.

Sad, really. Oh, not about the above, about the lack of Hydrox in the frozen realms of Canada.
I've been reading about it, not the lack of Hydrox cookies, about Canada.
It's an actual country, don't you know?
All these years I've just been staring at the map thinking "Well, they had to name the place despite the fact that no one sane will ever go there, much less live. " and now I've changed my opinion, it's what one does as we live on.

I'm going to start a poll: Should it be Finnie, Finney, Phinnie or Phinney?

Joe(gosh that's fun to say)Nation

If we could just somehow get closer to theists ...

...an atheist and a (space) theist... remove the space and we are all (lexically at least) atheist.

You mean like finnan haddie? I can't get with the idea of having cold smoked haddock in milk for breakfast.

I disagree completely.

There are people in the world that see a a distinct difference between denying that there are any notable supernatural elements, and is open to the idea of there could exist something out there that is “more” than what meets the eye. This to me has always been the fundamental difference between a person who is agnostic versus someone who is fully atheistic.

An agnostic may not believe in any given religion present in the world, but they do believe that there is something else besides the physical world that we see. This is as much faith as any religious conviction, because we’ve yet to observe anything crucial about our universe to suggest that the laws governing it aren’t just the result of the normal laws of physics. It’s the standard teapot in orbit around the Earth, as made famous by Bertrand Russell; you can’t prove that there is a supernatural element to our universe, but you can’t disprove it either.

An atheist is someone who has reached a conclusion, not a belief, that there are no gods, based on the available information. If someone hasn’t yet reached that conclusion (and says “I don’t know” as answer) then they still believe in a some probability (very big, medium, or very small) that God can exist.

Another ******* idiot who doesn't understand satire.

Setire? You exist that is all that matters

If you don't have any holy cookies, go away . . .

Morning Set,

Oh, sorry, I couldn't catch the sarcasm in Joe's typing style.

Ok you want a more interesting satire, well, here it is for the heck of it:

I was just about to spread the butter when I noticed a fairly typical small hole surrounded by a burnt black ring, right in the middle of the bread. But then I noticed the direction and splatter patterns of the crumbs - flowing outward from the center of a black hole, changing shades as distance from the center grew. A perfect match to the chaotic-dynamic non-linear patterns that followed the Big-Bang. It's the beginning of the world - right there in my breakfast!

holy damn cow

It's lugubrious, but it's a start . . .

ANON...

An atheist buys an ancient lamp at an auction, takes it home, and begins to polish it. Suddenly, a genie appears, and says, “I’ll grant you three wishes, Master.” The atheist says, “I wish I could believe in you.” The genie snaps his fingers, and suddenly the atheist believes in him. The atheist says, “Wow. I wish all atheists would believe this.” The genie snaps his fingers again, and suddenly atheists all over the world begin to believe in genies. “What about your third wish?” asks the genie. “Well,” says the atheist, “I wish for a billion dollars.” The genie snaps his fingers for a third time, but nothing happens. “What’s wrong?” asks the atheist. The genie shrugs and says, “Just because you believe in me, doesn’t necessarily mean that I really exist.”