Morality is in the eye of the beholder...
But, we have established enough agreement for me.
hmmmm
has Bush (or his campaign group) challenged any of moveon.org's work?
Challenged, no. Whined about how unfair it was, yes.
Thanks, phoenix.
I'd read the article and had forgotten where.
I do remember this striking my eye ...
Quote:Killing people has a sobering effect on a man and dispels all illusions about war.
I recall that it made me reflect on the members of A2K who volunteered, and served in Vietnam, and what perspectives (the ones who have been willing to share that with us) they have on the debate.
Carrying the dog tag of one of them is a daily, sobering, reminder.
JOHN FORBES DUKAKIS
It's hard to criticize John Kerry these days. Apparently, every criticism of him is unfair. At least, we're not supposed to criticize his time in Vietnam -- or even what he's said about Vietnam more recently -- because that would be a "smear" (even when the Kerry campaign admits, as it has regarding Kerry's Christmas-in-Cambodia claims, that he hasn't been telling the truth). That he served in Vietnam 35 years ago, we're told, tells us all we need to know about his character.
But what he did more recently, in testifying against his fellow soldiers and opposing the war after returning, doesn't tell us anything about his character at all, because it was a long time ago -- nearly 35 years! So we're not supposed to talk about that.
And, apparently, it's unfair to talk about his record in the Senate, as Zell Miller did Wednesday night, because, well, those Senate votes are so complicated that nobody can really understand them anyway. (You can see Chris Matthews trying -- without much success -- to make this argument here, on video.)
So what's left? His time as Michael Dukakis's Lieutenant Governor? Actually, that's off limits, too:
Kerry's decision to keep Dukakis at arm's length may be an effort to avoid a repeat of Dukakis' defeat. In the 1988 presidential race, Bush's campaign successfully painted Dukakis as a Massachusetts liberal out of touch with most of America.
But the Dukakis parallels are hard to escape. And, in fact, even some Democrats are making the comparison:
A friend of mine tracked me down a little while ago to relate a dream. He was walking through a big office that he realized was the headquarters of the Kerry campaign. He saw a door marked "Campaign Manager" and entered, to see Kerry campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill, appropriately enough, sitting behind the desk. As he drew nearer, however, the woman suddenly ripped off her Cahill mask, behind which was ... Susan Estrich, Michael Dukakis' campaign manager! At that point, he woke up screaming.
Ouch. The difference, perhaps, is that the Bush campaign isn't having to paint Kerry as out of touch -- he's doing it himself. He certainly did it in his screechy and off-key response to President Bush Friday morning. As Ann Althouse notes, Kerry's haughty and demeaning approach isn't likely to play with voters:
So, your big answer, after all of these attacks, is that you somehow "will not have" any questions. I simply will not have it. You hear that? He does not want to be questioned. He went to Vietnam, and therefore, he simply will not have any questions about whether he has the qualifications to be President. Come on, that's a roar, isn't it?
And by the way, any man who didn't volunteer to go to Vietnam who was of age at the time--all you Baby Boomer men who had student deferments or even if you served in the National Guard, I mean were in the National Guard--you were all refusing to serve.
Apparently, anyone who wasn't in a swiftboat in Cambodia ...somewhere in Vietnam... is a traitor, or something.
And Kerry complains that people are questioning his patriotism?
Actually, from his perspective, it's worse: they're questioning his viability as a candidate. As Virginia Postrel observes:
John Kerry made Bush look even better with his petulant and rambling midnight address. What was he thinking? Doesn't Kerry have advisers to tell him not to give poorly prepared speeches that project desperation?
Apparently not. Kerry's response has been -- as in the past -- to blame his staff:
Sen. John Kerry is angry at the way his campaign has botched the attacks from the Swift boat veterans and has ordered a staff shakeup that will put former Clinton aides in top positions.
"The candidate is furious," a longtime senior Kerry adviser told the Daily News. "He knows the campaign was wrong. He wanted to go after the Swift boat attacks, but his top aides said no."
I'm reminded of the old Saturday Night Live skit involving a debate between Michael Dukakis, played by Jon Lovitz, and George H.W. Bush, played by Dana Carvey. At one point, Lovitz/Dukakis turns to the camera and says, "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy!" I guess if it were remade for this election, Kerry would be turning to the camera and saying, "I can't believe my staff is losing to this guy!"
One question for voters -- among many, many others that we're apparently not supposed to be asking -- is this: If Kerry can't run a campaign, how can he run the Presidency?
-------------
Pretty much sums it up.
i joined moveon 36 months ago. in fact, was disappointed when they held a litmus election and howard dean was the winner, not kerry. their backing of kerry came only when he was the clear nominee.
here's a little background;
Who started MoveOn?
MoveOn was started by Joan Blades and Wes Boyd, two Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. Although neither had experience in politics, they shared deep frustration with the partisan warfare in Washington D.C. and the ridiculous waste of our nation's focus at the time of the impeachment mess. On September 18th 1998, they launched an online petition to "Censure President Clinton and Move On to Pressing Issues Facing the Nation." Within days they had hundreds of thousands of individuals signed up, and began looking for ways these voices could be heard.
y pocito mas informaccion;
about
i can honestly tell y'all that moveon did not pay for, sanction or approve for judging the "hitler" ads. in fact, i saw 1 of them once there, registered a complaint along with others, and it was quickly removed. it played for much, much longer on the rnc website. now it can onlt be found on peer to peer servers. to the best of my knowledge.
like most organizations, i disagree with some of their stuff. but overall, i believe moveon's existence is a good thing. imho...
I think the second half of this article nicely catches the deviousnesses of the Bush campaign's tricks (see the parts I turned dark-red). But they also rudely showcase the exact reason why I was mortified when Kerry was elected the Dem candidate - you just knew he could so easily be tore into like this.
http://www.tnr.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040927&s=lizza092704
Quote:CAMPAIGN JOURNAL
Flip Side
by Ryan Lizza
Post date: 09.16.04
Issue date: 09.27.04
I don't use a lot of big words. /But I'm bent on love if you know what I mean. / I ain't int'rested in bein' politically correct. / I stand right up and say what I believe. / I'm a little rough around the edges, but I think I'm exactly what you need.
--From Travis Tritt's "Rough Around the Edges," a song frequently played at Bush campaign events
Muskegon Republicans are not subtle. Two thousand party activists from this southwestern Michigan county are gathered in a hangar at the local airport, waiting for George W. Bush to arrive. They aren't subtle about their love of God and country. First they bow their heads in prayer. A young man explains that the Bush supporters are gathered "to lift high the name of Jesus Christ." Addressing God and speaking of the president, he declares, without eliciting a murmur of concern, "We know you appointed him to the position." After the prayer is the Pledge of Allegiance. After the Pledge is the national anthem. Next, four stout women lead the crowd in a cappella versions of "God Bless America," "God Bless the USA," and a medley of other patriotic songs.
They aren't subtle about John Kerry. Holly Hughes, a local official, succinctly explains, "We don't need a Massachusetts liberal who will flip-flop on all the issues." Representative Pete Hoekstra, the new chairman of the House Select Committee on Intelligence, "explains" that Michael Moore is one of Kerry's principal foreign policy advisers.
Bush isn't subtle either. His entrance is dramatic. The Muskegon crowd watches through massive hangar doors as Air Force One drops out of the sky and taxis to the edge of the rally, the plane nicely framed by bleachers of adoring supporters. Later in the day, at a rally in Holland, Michigan, Bush's campaign bus--a giant American flag on wheels--rolls onto the Ottawa County Fairgrounds to the theme song from the Harrison Ford thriller Air Force One, a dramatic orchestral score akin to the music from 2001: A Space Odyssey.
There are occasional intrusions into this self-contained world. Pockets of Kerry fans often line Bush's route, holding signs (bush lied, 1,000s died) and giving him the thumbsdown sign. One hard-looking man, with cutoff sleeves and a bandana on his head, shows his contempt by simply standing silently alongside his pickup truck with his arms crossed and his back turned to Bush's motorcade. In Greenwood Village, Colorado, on Tuesday, two men infiltrate Bush's rally and heckle the president before being drowned out by the crowd and escorted out of the arena. (Karl Rove recently joked to reporters that such protesters are all shipped off to Gitmo.)
But, for the most part, spending time on the trail with Bush is like being transported to a parallel universe. The only music is Christian rock and country tunes about plain-talking everymen. The only people who ask the president questions are his most feverish supporters, never the press. In this alternate universe, Iraq and Afghanistan are marching effortlessly toward democracy. The economy is, in the words of former Broncos quarterback John Elway, who introduces Bush in Greenwood Village, "the best in the world." John Kerry, whose platform is to the right of Clinton's in 1992, is calling for a massive expansion of government. Meanwhile, Bush's two most radical ideas, the ones that House Republicans privately insist will top the agenda in Washington next year if Bush wins--a shift toward privatizing Social Security that will cost at least a trillion dollars and a move toward a flat tax--are mentioned only in passing, buried in a laundry list of minor proposals.
And it is all working brilliantly. The key to Bush's success is that, on the stump, he is a master at turning his simple speaking style into a political virtue. Indeed, if you listen to him carefully, much of Bush's case for a second term rests on the idea that he speaks more clearly than John Kerry. "Now, when the American president says something, he better mean it," Bush says at almost every stop. "When the American president says something, he's got to speak in a way that's easy for people to understand and mean what he says." Bush is obsessed with his plainspoken image. If he accidentally uses what he regards as a complicated word, he catches himself and defines it for his audience. "You ask docs what it's like to practice in a litigious society," he tells the crowd in Muskegon. "That means there's a lot of lawsuits. I'm not even a lawyer, and I know the word 'litigious.'" Later, speaking about a health care proposal, he says, "It's commonsensical. In other words, it makes sense to do it this way."
He delights in reciting long, complicated quotes from John Kerry that allegedly reveal the senator's shifting stances. The crowd-pleasing climax of the Bush stump speech is his mocking of Kerry's now-famous line, "I actually did vote for the eighty-seven billion dollars before I voted against it." This is invariably followed by a head-shaking line about Kerry being out of touch with the locals. ("Now, I know Holland, Michigan, well enough to know not many people talk like that around here." "Now, I've spent some time in Colorado. The people out here don't talk like that.") Bush has been so successful at linking Kerry's convoluted speaking style to charges of flip-floppery that even the most innocuous Kerry statements are now ripped out of context and used to assault Kerry's character. Speaking about an important local issue at one stop, Bush says derisively, "Earlier this year, my opponent said a decision about Great Lakes water diversion would be 'a delicate balancing act.'" Bush pauses and gives the crowd a can-you-believe-it look. "That kind of sounds like him, doesn't it? My position is clear: My administration will never allow the diversion of Great Lakes water." Never mind that Bush and Kerry have the exact same position on the issue--neither favor redirecting water to needy states.
In fact, the genius of Bush's fetish with speaking clearly and plainly is that it makes it much easier for him to get away with saying things that aren't true. In the Bush campaign, simplicity is equated with veracity. One of Bush's favorite rhetorical devices is the straw man. When he speaks of terrorists, he pretends that there is some dangerous faction of Democrats that wants to sign a treaty with Al Qaeda. "You cannot negotiate with these people," he defiantly tells the Muskegon Republicans. "You cannot hope for the best from them. You cannot hope they'll change their ways." Sometimes Bush just assumes that some argument he finds ridiculous has been made. "I suspect someone probably said that these people can't be free," he says about Afghanistan at one stop. To the powerful voices allegedly advocating the transfer of U.S. sovereignty to foreign powers, he declares, "I will never turn over America's national security decisions to leaders of other countries."
Similarly, in plain language endlessly repeated, Bush paints a picture of the world and his opponent that is unhinged from reality. His only allusion to the spiraling chaos in Iraq is a passing reference to "ongoing acts of violence" that he delivers suspiciously faster than other lines. He talks about his mission to spread freedom abroad, but there is never a reference to his embrace of autocrats in Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and elsewhere. He says that unemployment is at a historical low without addressing the million jobs lost during his term. On health care, his characterization of Kerry's plan--"a massive, complicated blueprint to have our government take over the decision-making"--comes close to being made up out of thin air (see Jonathan Cohn, "Missed Target," page 13). He even constructs his own protester-less version of his campaign swings. "It's exciting to go on a bus tour," he says in Muskegon, "because a lot of people come out and they want to wave, and it warms my heart to see many people lining the roads like--that's what happens on these trips."
The frustration felt by Democrats about Bush's ability to get away with a campaign of straw men, half-truths, and baseless attacks can't be overstated. In a recent interview with The New Yorker, Al Gore described Bush communications operatives as "digital brownshirts." The Democratic National Committee has ended the taboo on the L-word and now flat-out calls the president a liar. The Kerry campaign has belatedly decided that Bush's successful effort to refocus the campaign away from issues and onto character and leadership can only be reversed by making a case that Bush is not just wrong on the issues but fundamentally dishonest about them. It's not subtle, but at least it's simple.
Ryan Lizza is a senior editor at TNR.
it really is bizarre. black is white, wet is dry, lies are truth. kind of reminds me of;
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
i'm from the south. most people there are kind and generous. but the truth of the matter is, some of them are total screwheads. can't be helped . there are good and bad people no matter where you live. the whole "just plain folks" thing is crap. he's not just plain folk. just plain stupid.
nuke-yoo-lur... bet he "warshes his sef" too.
nimh, i tried to pm you, but it says that it is unavailable. just wondering if you are american expat? your writing is in quite good english.
No, I'm very Dutch ... as Dutch as Rick (wish he were here)
o.k. cool
this made me wonder if you were from l.a.
NIMH the la brat that learned to read
no offense intended.
LOL!
The LA brat. Thats cool.
Well, as she herself woulda been the first to say, I dated one ... <giggles>
But the pun is actually "the lab rat that learned to read" ... which, if I got it right from much-missed Abuzz poster MissTerryDooFeelingThisThatSuchOrSo who first coined it, refers to the book 'Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh' (which I didn't read ..).
But in fact, nimh is the abbreviation for "no-itsme, habibi", my Abuzz screenname ...
Ah, complex world ;-)
I thought the same! I wasn't sure if it was L.A. or somesort of frenchified de la/ the la... Never saw "lab rat", though, which I so should've. (First thing I saw of when I saw your name, too. Great book.)
Hmmm ... some Bush spin went missing in the A2K outage here ... one or more posts? Dont remember what it was tho. Meanwhile, from Noam Scheiber's TNR blog here's ...
Quote:THE REAL KARL ROVE:
nimh wrote:LOL!
The LA brat. Thats cool.
'ntag nimh. what can i say? it seemed like it could have been...
just goes to show ya, perception is not unworthy of notice, or contemplation.
whoooaaa... wow. better head over to my personal cafe and consult myself on that one.
i'll spin "the best of golden earring" in your honor while doing so.
Nimh writes followed by an unsourced piece re Karl Rove:
Quote:Hmmm ... some Bush spin went missing in the A2K outage here ... one or more posts? Dont remember what it was tho. Meanwhile, from Noam Scheiber's TNR blog here's ...
To write a piece like this attacking Rove without even mentioning Carville, Begala, Morris or any of the campaign guru masterminds who are the architects of image, spin, suggestive innuendo, etc. makes it questionable partisanship on its face.
Add the most sleazy tactic of the smear-masters by citing an unnamed, unidentifiable source--an unnamed 'former Rove staffer'--and you have what is probably a flat out lie with no way to verify or rebut the accusation. The writer of the piece is obviously guilty of the very crime of which he accuses Rove.
There was a time when you could sue for libel and slander. In this campaign, that policy should be reinstated I think.
Kerry <-> Bush
While Bush was out getting drunk and sniffing coke at the age of 27, Kerry was coming back from Vietnam and head of Veterans Against Veitnam, speaking to Congress and getting the attention of Pres. Nixon and other aides.
He has shown me enough leadership in comparison to the incumbent!
Hollywoodidiots.com
