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Kerry v Bush: The Facts, the Campaigns and the Spin...

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2004 01:22 pm
Because they will no longer be run by local officials. They won't be shut down as in doors locked and barred, but in that the officials will be fired and state officials will take over. Not that that will change student behavior or parental disregard for thier childrens future, but it may motivate the current administrators to do a better job.

It seems to me tha schools should be teaching basic skills anyways and that is what the tests test. It's not as though these are Mensa tests. They test the students ability to read, write and comprehend.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2004 01:24 pm
Testing should be used to determine what interests and skills the child has to help them develop those skills and interests. Tests should not be used to scale students on standardized tests if that is the only goal.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2004 01:26 pm
As one who has been on the hiring end of the spectrum, I can testify that the schools have not been getting the job done in many places. When I look at a batch of employment applications in which more than 50% contain severely misspelled words, incomplete sentences, and it is obvious the applicant was unable to comprehend the written questions asked, it is pretty obvious that many functionally illiterate students are receiving highschool diplomas. Did I hire any of these? No way.

The schools are not doing young people any favors by advancing them when they have not sufficiently mastered the subject matter to merit the advancement. Thomas is right. How can you know whether the kids are educated unless we test them?
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2004 01:28 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Whether or not this is an indication of the lack of quality of the school or not, it isn't going to help the problem.

If the test results are not an indicator of the school's quality, that means the tests need to be improved to become such an indicator. I don't know the current tests so I can't judge their quality. In either case, this is not an argument against testing, nor against the test results having consequences for the schools.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Shutting down inner-city schools b/c they don't meet the goals is going to help the problem... how?

... and when a school fails to teach, what point is there in keeping it open? Closing down the school isn't by itself a solution. But combined with vouchers for the full cost of educating a child, I would expect that more children end up in schools that are good at what they're doing.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2004 01:30 pm
And C.I., it is looking for 'skills and interests' instead of useful knowledge that has the schools in trouble now. Make those things a reward for learning to read, write, understand a modicum of science, geography, history, and do essential math. And yes, test the little buggers to make damn sure they're getting it before letting them do the more fun stuff.

In fact, lets hire teachers like ones I once had who made the hard stuff interesting and fun to learn (though there was no way I was EVER going to find atomic weight of iron or the national gross product of Lichtenstein interesting.)
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Oct, 2004 01:38 pm
The three r's are necessary ingredients to surviving on this planet. When we were children, most of us living on the other side of the tracks in Sacramento, California, were headed by parents that spoke their native tongue and little or no English. Most of us, the majority, have gone to college and have gone into the professions that provided us with a pretty good living in this country. What I have always told my children is 1) I expected them to go to college which I will support, and 2) go into a career field that will make them happy - I didn't/don't care what field they picked. If children do not learn the three r's, the teachers are failing to do their jobs.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 03:30 pm
Some pretty damning stuff, especially in reference to Duelfer's new report in the bottom half of the article.

Quote:
Terror Watch
Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball

Rewriting History
In his debate with John Edwards, Dick Cheney had a brand-new version of the events that led to war
most likely because Nidal, who hadn't been associated with any terrorist attacks in years, was already deadCheney also left out the fact that the alleged poisons facility that Zarqawi allegedly supervised was in a part of northern Iraq not controlled by Saddam's government.the chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq, concludes once and for all that Iraq had no chemical or biological weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion. In fact, the report says, Iraq had destroyed the stockpiles it did have after the first Persian Gulf War under the pressure of U.N. sanctionsDuelfer found that Saddam had actually abandoned his nuclear efforts years earlier. "He was getting further away from nuclear weapons," a U.S. government official familiar with Duelfer's report told reporters yesterday. "He was further away from nuclear weapons in 2003 than he was in 1991." The nuclear program wasn't reconstituting, the official said. It was "decaying."

In last night's debate, Cheney largely skirted the administration's prewar claims about Iraqi WMD, although he did at one point refer to a presumed nexus between terrorists and Iraqi unconventional weapons. "The point is that that's the place where you're most likely to see the terrorists come together with weapons of mass destruction, the deadly technologies that Saddam Hussein had developed and used over the years," he said. The claim that Saddam's agents had instructed Al Qaeda terrorists in making "poisons and gasses" had in fact been a prominent feature of the administration's prewar assertions, highlighted by Powell in his Security Council speech and Cheney repeatedly in his TV appearances and speeches. But the allegation was almost entirely based on the claims of one high-level Al Qaeda detaineewho, according to the 9/11 commission, has since recanted his story.

Asked if Duelfer's team had found any evidence that Iraq had provided such training for terrorists, the U.S. official familiar with Duelfer's report shook his head and said simply: "No."
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 03:55 pm
Let me catch up here. Charles Duelfer, the administration's top arms inspector, today said that he had found no evidence that Iraq produced any weapons of mass destruction after 1991. He concludes that Iraq had no chemical or biological weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion. His report in fact says that Iraq had destroyed the stockpiles it did have after the first Persian Gulf War. And that Saddam had abandoned his nuclear efforts years years ago (with the report apparently noting that "he was further away from nuclear weapons in 2003 than he was in 1991.")

Yet in Pennsylvania yesterday, Bush declared:

Quote:

This last sentence sums up his position, yet considering the administration's own latest report on the matter, it makes no sense at all.

I mean - either Saddam did have "the intent" to produce WMD, like Bush says. He wanted to make them. Then one can only conclude - I mean, considering that he didn't apparently actually make any in the thirteen years since 1991 - that he must not have had the necessary knowledge, materials or means.

Or he did have the required knowledge, materials and means to make them. But if he did, he apparently didn't want to make them - seeing how he didn't, you know, for thirteen long years.

I can see how Bush could plausibly argue either that Saddam wanted to make WMD (but couldn't yet, which is why we had to nip his intentions in the bud while we could) - or that he could make WMD (and that's why we had to take him out even if he apparently had not felt the urge to act on his capacity yet).

Both highly problematic, but still somehow arguable.

But saying Saddam had the intention and the means just doesn't line up with the administration's own evidence that Saddam had produced no WMD in thirteen years.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Oct, 2004 04:12 pm
Let's compare Mr. Duelfer's 'damning evidence' with his testimony to Congress in March 2004:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2004/tenet_testimony_03302004.html

Further the media is concentrating on the first half of his most recent report. The information there is much qualified by the last half of his report. Will anyone be fair about that?
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2004 10:18 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Let's compare Mr. Duelfer's 'damning evidence' with his testimony to Congress in March 2004:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2004/tenet_testimony_03302004.html

Why compare to that testimony when the first paragraph of that testimony is:
Quote:
First, a disclaimer. This report is very limited in scope. It is intended to provide a status report of my efforts at steering the ISG. It is not a preliminary assessment of findings. I inherited the expectation of appearing before Congress from the previous Special Advisor, and I am using this opportunity to describe my overall approach.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2004 10:22 am
Seems to me the overall approach has been pretty much ignored by the conclusions the media has drawn from the report.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2004 10:27 am
Well, as you frequently remind me, "you can always turn it off or change stations".
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2004 01:18 pm
Quote:
A $5-TRILLION HEALTHCARE PLAN?: The ever-astute Jonathan Cohn e-mails with a debate observation: Among Bush's outrageous distortions last night was his attempt to describe Kerry's health plan as a budget-buster.

Here's what Bush said:

Quote:
[A] plan is not to lay out programs that you can't pay for. He [Kerry] just said he wants everybody to be able to buy into the same plan that senators and congressmen get. That costs the government $7,700 per family. If every family in America signed up like the senator suggested it would cost us five trillion dollars over 10 years. It's an empty promise. It's called bait and switch.

When you listen to the line or read it quickly, you might get the impression that Kerry's plan could end up costing the government $5 trillion over ten years. Wow, that would be a lot! (Keep in mind that the entire federal budget for this year is just $2.4 trillion.)
But, of course, Bush is flat-out wrong.

The idea Bush attacks here is Kerry's proposal to offer Americans a new insurance option, by allowing them to buy into the same system that now covers federal employees and members of Congress. In this system, beneficiaries get to choose from a menu of private insurance plans, taking advantage of the relatively low group rates that federal employees get by virtue of their massive numbers. This would help all those people who can't get such affordable group rates now, because their employers don't offer coverage or becuase they're self-employed.

Notice the key phrase, though: "buy into the same system"--as in, buy with your own money. People who enroll in Kerry's program will have to pay premiums just like everybody else. Whether they pay it all on their own or have their employers subsidize those premiums depends on their particular job arrangement. But, either way, it's not on the federal government's dime.

Indeed, the only significant expenditure for the federal government would be the assistance Kerry has promised those individuals who, because of their low incomes, cannot afford these premiums on their own. He would also offer small businesses some tax credits to afford coverage. To be sure, that costs real dollars, about $385 billion over ten years, or roughly a third of the plan's entire cost, according to a study by the Lewin Group. But that's hardly $5 trillion. And, relative to other forms of assistance, it certainly seems like an efficient way to guarantee stable, high quality health coverage to people who don't have it now.

posted 1:14 p.m.

link
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 03:09 pm
Anybody else think Kerry/Edwards are in self destruct mode?

Kerry Off the Leash
By DAVID BROOKS

Published: October 19, 2004 (NY Times)

John Kerry wasn't nominated because of his sparkling personality. He wasn't nominated because of his selfless commitment to causes larger than himself. He was nominated because he's a fighter. At the end of every campaign he comes out brawling. This was the guy who could take on Bush.

So nobody could imagine how incompetent, crude and over-the-top Kerry has been in this final phase of the campaign. At this point, smart candidates are launching attacks that play up the doubts voters already have about their opponents. Incredibly, Kerry is launching attacks that play up doubts voters have about him. Over the past few days, he has underscored the feeling that he will say or do anything to further his career.

In so doing, he has managed to squelch any momentum he may have had coming out of the first two debates. Some polls have him stagnant against Bush. More polls show Bush recovering from the debate season and now pulling slightly ahead. The blunt truth is that Kerry is losing the final phase of this campaign.

Let's review the string of heavy-handed assaults from the Kerry-Edwards campaign.

On Monday, Kerry told seniors in Florida that Bush is plotting a "January surprise" to cut their Social Security benefits by as much as 45 percent. "That's up to $500 a month less for food, for clothing, for the occasional gift for a grandchild."

As Kerry knows, that's ludicrous - it's a stale and transparent canard that Democrats have brought out in election after election, to less and less effect. President Bush has not entertained and would not entertain any plan that cut benefits to seniors. Bush would sooner give up any Social Security reform than cut benefits.

Kerry's second wild attack is that Bush would reinstate the draft. The administration, which hasn't even asked for trivial public sacrifices in a time of war, does not want to bring back the draft. The Pentagon does not want to bring back the draft. The Republican Party does not want to bring back the draft. Given the nature of military technology, it doesn't make sense to bring back the draft. There may be some in the bureaucracy taking precautions, but it is hard to imagine an attack with less basis in fact.

Kerry's third attack is the whole Mary Cheney thing. That's been hashed over enough. But remarkably, Kerry has not apologized. You use somebody's daughter to attack the father and his running mate. The parents are upset. The only decent thing is to apologize. If anything, an apology would make Kerry look admirable. But Kerry, in his permanent attack dog mode, can't do the decent and politically advantageous thing.

The fourth assault is Kerry's attack on the Bush administration's supposed "ban" on stem cell research. John Edwards's ludicrous statement that if Kerry was president, people like Christopher Reeve would be able to get up and walk was only the farcical culmination of a series of exaggerations about the possibilities of finding cures for Alzheimer's and spinal cord injuries.

I'm not trying to make a moral point here about sleazy campaigning. Politics ain't beanbag, and in the final days of a close campaign, exaggerations are the norm. I'm talking about competence and what this period says about Kerry and his campaign.

Bush's key vulnerability is that people fear he is in over his head. By lashing out wildly, Kerry muddles all that. Instead his blunderbuss approach suggests a candidate devoid of perspective, driven by unattractive and naked ambition.

Why is he doing this? First, because in the insular Democratic world, George Bush is presumed to be guilty of everything, so the more vicious you can be about him, the better everybody feels.

But there is a deeper assumption, which has marred Democratic politics for years. Some Democrats have been unable to face the reality that people have been voting for Republicans because they agree with them. So these Democrats have invented the comforting theory that they've been losing because they are too virtuous for the country.

According to this theory, Republicans - or usually some omniscient, omnipotent and malevolent strategists, like Lee Atwater or Karl Rove - have been tricking the American people into voting against their true interests. This year, many Democrats decided, we'll be vicious in return.

The truth, however, is that voters are not idiots. They are capable of independent thought. If you attack your opponent wildly, ruthlessly, they will come to their own conclusions.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/opinion/19brooks.html?oref=login&oref=login
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 08:53 pm
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2004/db041031.gif
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Thok
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 07:08 am
Short time before the election:

U.S. embassies in northern Europe receive 'threat information'

Quote:
United States embassies in northern Europe said they have received "threat information" and urged Americans living in the Nordic and Baltic regions to be cautious.

In the rare warning for Americans in the region, the State Department urged all citizens "to be vigilant as to their surroundings, especially in centers of ground-based mass transit, and to report any unusual or suspicious persons, incidents or circumstances" to authorities, the embassy's Web site in Helsinki said.

The warning, posted late Saturday, gave no other details.

"The information is as specific as we can make it at this time. If we had more specific information for American citizens, we would of course release it," embassy spokeswoman, Victoria Middleton, said on Monday.

The State Department's warning coincided with an announcement Saturday by Latvia's security service that it had received intelligence reports from Norway, Estonia and the United States of a possible terrorist strike against the small Baltic nation.

The U.S. Embassy in Riga, Latvia, urged Americans "to avoid large shopping areas and transportation hubs on or about November 1, 2004." Latvian officials said the country's national security council would meet Monday to discuss the warning.

The Finnish Security Police said security will be increased at the U.S. Embassy in Helsinki but that Nordic citizens had nothing to fear.

"The United States has a lower threshold when it comes to warning its citizens, but we have no concrete information that would warrant such a warning," said Paavo Selin, head of Finland's counterterrorism unit.

Norway closed its embassy in Riga because of the warning, the Norwegian news agency NTB reported.

The Baltic states include Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. The Nordic states include Norway, Sweden and Finland.


Source
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