44
   

Florida's Stand your Ground law

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:40 am
@hawkeye10,
The online survey shows nothing about what Americans in general think about anything. It can only show what the respondents thought, nothing more or less.
roger
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:45 am
@parados,
I hang up on pollsters. They do not report my thinking at all. Maybe the outcomes are decided by people with too much time on their hands
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:45 am
@hawkeye10,
48/44 with 8 undecided is not an even split
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:45 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

There is your problem, you cant read the data. This poll indicates that Americans are evenly split on our support of stand your ground laws, and this is AFTER the Martin/Zimmerman case has been hotly debated for weeks.


48 is usually considered to be a higher number than 44


in any case, does anyone know what similar surveys showed a year ago?
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:48 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
in any case, does anyone know what similar surveys showed a year ago?
That was my first thought!
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:49 am
@parados,
Quote:
Up to 54.5% of poll voters support "stand your ground" laws, while 38.8% area against the legalized use of lethal force in self-defense.

Finally, 35.4% of poll respondents believe that George Zimmerman, the shooter in the Trayvon Martin case, should be charged with murder; 28.9% believe manslaughter charges should be brought against him, while a sizeable 35.7% believe he should not be charged at all.

This poll was conducted online among 1,572 adults nationwide. After the poll was completed, the data was processed through a weighting program to insure that the sample reflects the overall population in terms of age, race, gender, political party, and other factors. The processing step is standard among polling agencies and is necessary because different segments of the population may answer more than others

http://www.political.com/Reports/Stand_Your_Ground_Laws

If you think that Americans support efforts to repeal stand you ground laws then now would be the time to show some evidence.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:52 am
@ehBeth,
interesting

less than a month ago, the results were quite different


Quote:
Two thirds of Americans (68%) support the law passed by the Florida Legislature in 2005



http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/44479/americans-want-charges-in-martin-case-back-stand-your-ground-law/


68 % support for SYG in March 2012 to 44 % now


~~~~~


another one from March 2012

http://www.statista.com/statistics/221730/us-public-opinion-on-the-so-called-stand-your-ground-laws/

43 % against SYG, 48 % against now



~~~~~


the numbers are definitely shifting
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 10:53 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
If you think that Americans support efforts to repeal stand you ground laws then now would be the time to show some evidence.



good thing I just found some of that evidence eh
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 11:32 am
@hawkeye10,
That is a different poll from the online survey from CNN.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 12:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
It would have been useful if political.com had provided the date of their poll.

Since it was being reported on April 3, 2012, it appears to have taken place before the poll results you posted today which shows a lower percentage of respondents supported SYG legislation.

A 'real' poll might be more helpful than the online polls, but they do give a sense of a shift in attitudes as people become more aware of what the Stand Your Ground laws can result in.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 12:36 pm
@ehBeth,
Without SYG laws what will happen to someone who has a clear cut case of self defense? Will they have to be arrested and treated like a criminal?
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 12:40 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Without SYG laws what will happen to someone who has a clear cut case of self defense?
Will they have to be arrested and treated like a criminal?
That 's what the leftists want,
and if that results in his life savings being consumed in lawyers' fees, that 's OK with them.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 12:44 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
I hang up on pollsters. They do not report my thinking at all.
How do u KNOW this ?





David
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 12:59 pm
@Baldimo,
They will claim self defense, just as they did before these laws were on the books. People have always had the ability to defend themselves, they just had to try to get away first unless they were in their home. With SYG, they are no longer required to avoid anything.

Do you ever wonder why there was a need to change the law? Were there a great many cases of people who were arrested and tried for defending themselves in public? I have. And from what I can find in Florida, there were not.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 01:11 pm
@Baldimo,
What happened to them in the United States in the years before SYG?

Who came up with the idea that SYG was necessary (a really interesting question that Free Duck has provided some information about)?
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 01:22 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:
They will claim self defense, just as they did before these laws were on the books.
People have always had the ability to defend themselves,
they just had to try to get away first unless they were in their home.
For what reason shud the innocent try to protect the violent predators????
Y shud thay expose their backs to violence ?





FreeDuck wrote:
With SYG, they are no longer required to avoid anything.
That is as it shud be.






FreeDuck wrote:
Do you ever wonder why there was a need to change the law?
I never did.
There was a defect in the law
which disfavored the decent people (voters),
to the advantage of criminal predators;
i.e., government was biting the hand that feeds it.






FreeDuck wrote:
Were there a great many cases of people who
were arrested and tried for defending themselves in public?
There was a potential that this badly crafted law
might backfire on some fine citizen; the legislature cured that.





FreeDuck wrote:
I have. And from what I can find in Florida, there were not.
Even 1 case is too much, FreeDuck,
or the potential for one.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 01:24 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
What happened to them in the United States in the years before SYG?

Who came up with the idea that SYG was necessary
(a really interesting question that Free Duck has provided some information about)?
Well, I was thinking about it; so also was the NRA.
We got the job done, to some extent; some more States yet to go.





David
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 02:07 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
youll never convince me that most of the gun deaths in the 1800's were "self defense". Gun fights were part of public debate ad duels were occurences that were'nt infrequent.
In my home city of Allentown Pa, the gunfights reported in newspapers morgues were common and ALlentown was Not especially a crime ridden city.

Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 02:29 pm
Not everyone is convinced the SYG law will even be used as a defense in Zimmerman's trial. If it is, though, some revamping is definitely in order.

FL Dem chair Rod Smith co-sponsored 'Stand Your Ground'

Quote:
Plenty of Florida Democrats are saying, "We told you so" and calling for repeal of the "stand your ground" law in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting in Sanford,but not Florida Democratic Chairman Rod Smith. Smith, a former prosecutor, actually co-sponsored the bill as a state Senator in 2005. He can't see how it could used to in defense of the Sanford shooter, volunteer neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman.

"I've tried and defended stand your ground cases, and I've prosecuted murder cases," Smith said. "This individual (Zimmerman), as I understand the facts, moved the ground toward the confrontation. That's not a stand your ground defense. Unless there are facts that I'm not aware of, I think you'll see an arrest made...It's hard to believe that someone was not arrested that night."

Stand your ground passed the Florida senate unanimously in 2005, though Democrats in the Florida House warned that it could lead to severe unintended consequences.

Smith said he still supports the law: "I did not believe then, and I still have a real concern why we should put a duty to retreat on a victim. If you were genuinely defending yourself, why did you have to retreat when you were not the perpetrator?"

One-on-one shooting cases without witnesses can always pose challenges for prosecutors, Smith said, but the objective evidence appears compelling in this case: "We're talking about a young man shot point blank at close range after you've been told not to pursue him - and no evidence that this young man was doing anything inappropriate...Is it reasonable to believe the smaller person attacked the larger? The younger versus the older? The unarmed versus the armed?"

Smith said he'd be the first to support revamping the law if it turns out to be helping people get away with crimes, but that state leaders should hold off on reviewing it until the Zimmerman case is is concluded and the facts are out.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Apr, 2012 05:15 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
youll never convince me that most of the gun deaths in the 1800's were "self defense". Gun fights were part of public debate ad duels were occurences that were'nt infrequent.
In my home city of Allentown Pa, the gunfights reported in newspapers morgues were common and ALlentown was Not especially a crime ridden city.
Duels were not the same thing as what was inflicted upon Zimmy.
Thay r what Alex Hamilton did.
How many of yours were swordsmanship ??
Gotta go vote; c u later, farmer.





David
 

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