Florida's Stand your Ground law

@OmSigDAVID,

We don't yet know that there was any pounding of heads on the sidewalk.

The problem is, David, Zimmerman is the perp, not Trayvon.He's the one who provoked the confrontation, he quite accurately made Trayvon fear for his life, and under Florida's Kill At Will Law, he's the person who could very legitimately have been killed. Too bad Trayvon was a trusting kid who just wanted to get home to watch the ball game and didn't have one of your magnums.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Yes, I understand that you consider "I'm better armed so I get to do what I want; it's essential to be the last man standing" to be the issue here.

However, some of us have this silly idea of "consider the consequences of starting a fight before you do so, so that you don't end up in the slammer because you lost control of the situation."

In your scenario, you're the last man standing, but you end up in prison.

In my scenario, both people are still alive, and the police sort out whether the kid belongs there or not.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

It is wise for anyone whose head is being pounded on the sidewalk to kill the perp ASAP, regardless of the Stand Your Ground Law.

I'll also add this: If your head is getting pound on the sidewalk, then your first order of business should be stop getting your head pounded on the sidewalk. I imagine there are a number of ways to accomplish this, but, as always, you are of the mindset "if the only tool you have is a gun, then shoot something."

Personally, my favorite tool is my brain, which is a very versatile tool and can be used in any number of different ways.

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@DrewDad,

Quote:

Personally, my favorite tool is my brain, which is a very versatile tool and can be used in any number of different ways.

When do you propose starting?

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@DrewDad,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

It is wise for anyone whose head is being pounded on the sidewalk to kill the perp ASAP,
regardless of the Stand Your Ground Law.

DrewDad wrote:

I'll also add this: If your head is getting pound on the sidewalk,
then your first order of business should be stop getting your head pounded on the sidewalk.
I imagine there are a number of ways to accomplish this, but, as always,
you are of the mindset "if the only tool you have is a gun, then shoot something."

That appears to have succeeded in this case.
The predator was the one that got buried.

DrewDad wrote:

Personally, my favorite tool is my brain, which is a very versatile tool and can be used in any number of different ways.

OK, DD; if u r pulled over backward and u have your head pounded against the sidewalk,
then I invite u to do WHATEVER u "IMAGINE" to accomplish the desired result.

That freedom of choice rightfully belongs to U.
Mr. Z 's freedom of choice rightfully belonged to him, in the circumstances.
In consequence, the rest of us will remain safe from Martin.

For that, I will raise a glass in tribute to Mr. Z !

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Raise a glass in tribute to stupidity if you wish.

Choosing to confront a suspected criminal alone, even if you are armed, is not a survival characteristic.

This is a crystal clear case of "carrying a gun does not make you invincible."

Had Zimmerman used his brains, instead of his gun, Trayvon would be alive, and Zimmerman would be free.

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@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Raise a glass in tribute to stupidity if you wish.

OK.
The victim survived, almost intact.
Accordingly, his defensive tactic succeeded; that 's what counts.

DrewDad wrote:

Choosing to confront a suspected criminal alone, even if you are armed, is not a survival characteristic.

I have no position on that.
I have no position on the wisdom of patrolling your naborhood
to defend it from burglars. I 've been too lazy to consider doing that; not much crime, anyway.

DrewDad wrote:

This is a crystal clear case of "carrying a gun does not make you invincible."

Carrying health insurance does not keep u invincible from traffic accidents,
getting hit by lightning, nor from getting mugged,
but sometimes it can help u to control predatory situations,
instead of being helpless. Guns r health insurance.

DrewDad wrote:

Had Zimmerman used his brains, instead of his gun,
Trayvon would be alive, and Zimmerman would be free.

Then the rest of us 'd be exposed to the danger
of being attacked from behind by Trayvon.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Good of Zimmerman to sacrifice years of his life to prevent the rest of us from being attacked by a kid with no history of violence....

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

The problem is, David, Zimmerman is the perp, not Trayvon.
He's the one who provoked the confrontation,

Not if he were attacked from behind, because he innocently followed Martin.

MontereyJack wrote:

he quite accurately made Trayvon fear for his life,

Assuming from the fone conversation, that he FEARED,
how do we know that he feared for HIS LIFE??
In other words, how do we know that his fear was that severe ??

MontereyJack wrote:

and under Florida's Kill At Will Law, he's the person who could very legitimately have been killed.

The statute 's requirement is that such fear be "reasonable".
That element was missing from the facts of this case.
Mr. Z was apparantly attacked merely for FOLLOWING someone, perfectly within his rights.

MontereyJack wrote:

Too bad Trayvon was a trusting kid

Yes, well trusting IS stupid.

MontereyJack wrote:

who just wanted to get home to watch the ball game and didn't have one of your magnums.

I do not believe that magna r well suited for anti-personnel defense.
In my opinion, defensive use of magna is justified only qua larger animals.

If I were defensively using my .44 magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk,
I 'd have it loaded with .44 special, in an effort to avoid overpenetration, so that no one will get hurt.

David

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

We don't yet know that there was any pounding of heads on the sidewalk.

Well, the victim says that there was,
and there were visible injuries on the back of his head.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

He's right. When did Americans become such pussies they can't handle a fist fight?
When did everything become about shooting people, stand your ground, my ass..
It's time Americans had a real conversation about guns and violence.

Well, what if a couple of drunken, 7 foot 3OO pound bikers go to raping on your "ass", as u put it, Ceili,
or if one gets ruff with your mom, and starts ripping her clothes off,
while the other starts raping your little child????

Last nite, I saw on TV a re-enactment of an actual Canadian crime,
wherein a 12 year old girl and her boyfriend used knives to murder her parents
and then thay approached her 8 year old little brother, with their knives.
He was in his bedroom, in his pajamas.
The little boy tried to defend himself with a toy to which he had access. It did not work well enuf.

He lost his life to their knives; ( cut his throat ). Bloody.
At his age, I was armed better;
presumably a better result from the victim 's perspective.

Its better to HAVE a gun and not need it
than it is to NEED a gun and not have it.

When I got out of the hospital in 2005, after abdominal surgery,
it was the most that I coud do just to remain vertical, while walking.
I was thinking that I 'd not be much good in a fight, without a well loaded "equalizer".

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Well, the victim says that there was,
and there were visible injuries on the back of his head.

I wonder what he would have said had there been a witness. A surviving witness, of course.

1 Reply

@roger,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Well, the victim says that there was,
and there were visible injuries on the back of his head.

roger wrote:

I wonder what he would have said had there been a witness. A surviving witness, of course.

There WAS a witness, a young black, walking his dog at the time,
who said that he saw the guy in the red shirt ( Z ) on the ground yelling.

That disputes decedent 's parents' allegations
that thay heard him yelling on the tape.

David

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A trial may be the best thing that can happen for Zimmy,
in that his movie might be too short, without it; ( just a fight, ending with a 1 gun salute ).

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Its better to HAVE a gun and not need it
than it is to NEED a gun and not have it.

But it is best never to need it.... which was totally in Zimmerman's control.

You're making yourself ever more ridiculous.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Its better to HAVE a gun and not need it
than it is to NEED a gun and not have it.

DrewDad wrote:

But it is best never to need it .... which was totally in Zimmerman's control.

Well, yes, he coud have stayed home n slept,
but apparently he believed that there was too much burglary in his naborhood,
so he sought to ameliorate it by observation and calling police.
While so doing, he was within his Constitutional Rights (free speech)
to ask him what he was doing.

DrewDad wrote:

You're making yourself ever more ridiculous.

I will not be affected by your empty fluff, DD.
I have free speech, too.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Yes, you have the freedom to make a fool of yourself.

I, for one, shall never deny that to you.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Yes, you have the freedom to make a fool of yourself.

I, for one, shall never deny that to you.

Thank u, Fluffy; big of u.

David

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Yeah! And just think of the horror generated by that skinny, black 17-yr-old kid (who was outweighed by Zimmerman by 80-100 lbs) putting Zimmerman on the ground and making him holler in pain. Oh, the humanity!

Gawd save us from skinny black kids with those hoodies!
Ban the burka, too, while we're there.

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Florida's Stand your Ground law

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