44
   

Florida's Stand your Ground law

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 12:44 am
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

Patience, Grasshopper!


In otherwords you are speaking gut talk....my gut tells me the same thing, but so far it is not supported by the evidence, because we know of very little evidence. I do however know that the state is highly unlikely to have the evidence to support this massive charge, that they will probably try to emotionally manipulate a jury into a guilty verdict, which is a problem for me. More of a problem is what I consider to be the likelihood that George will fold, will not challenge the state.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 12:52 am
@hawkeye10,
My feeling is that experienced DA Corey took as much time as she did to make sure there was enough evidence to make Zimmerman want to fold and not go to trial. Do I know what that evidence is? No! But this DA is very good and very strategic.

He's in rough shape now and the distress of these last few weeks has made lose weight and he became isolated from everyone. He wants to talk even without an attorney and his former lawayers quit because he isn't thinking straight. It seems that they couldn't neither control him nor advise him.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 01:07 am
97% of cases brought never go to trial these days. They're plea bargained, or dropped, or negotiated away. Actual jury trials are becoming a thing of the past. Even Scalia had to recognize that in one of the recent decisions, and SCOTUS had to make adjustments that in fact the language of the Constitution doesn't work for how things actually are today.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 01:18 am
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

My feeling is that experienced DA Corey took as much time as she did to make sure there was enough evidence to make Zimmerman want to fold and not go to trial. Do I know what that evidence is? No! But this DA is very good and very strategic.

He's in rough shape now and the distress of these last few weeks has made lose weight and he became isolated from everyone. He wants to talk even without an attorney and his former lawayers quit because he isn't thinking straight. It seems that they couldn't neither control him nor advise him.


Modern DA's are very skilled at knowing where to push to get what they want, and very willing to do the pushing. Pursuing justice they are far less good at.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 01:43 am
Quote:
"My personal feeling is that, as a young kid that was beat on by a bully, that was pretty much singled out—the guy [Zimmerman] stalked him, didn't follow instructions from a superior officer, when they said, 'Stop following the kid.' That tells you everything right there. But my all-around perspective, I wasn't there, I don't know what happened. But it's just so widespread and overt what happened. Even though this is the best country in the world, certain laws in this country are a disgrace to a nation of savages. It's a majority versus a minority. That's the way God planned it. He didn't want to do something about it, He wanted us to do something about it. And if we don't, it's gonna stay this way. We have to continue tweeting, we have to continue marching, we have to continue fighting for Trayvon Martin. If that's not the case, he was killed in vain, and we're just waiting for it to happen to our children. He'll have gotten away with impunity. It's a disgrace that man hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away. That's the only kind of retribution that people like that understand. It's a disgrace that man hasn't been shot yet. Forget about him being arrested--the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace. That's how I feel personally about it."


Mike Tyson

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mike-tyson-trayvon-martin-case-disgrace-george-zimmerman-221115400.html

Rolling Eyes


He is right though, for most people what we do now is about retribution, it is not about justice.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 03:05 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

He is right though, for most people what we do now is about retribution, it is not about justice.


I think you're right about that, it wouldn't be so if he had been arrested right away.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 05:59 am
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

My feeling is that experienced DA Corey took as much time as she did to make sure there was enough evidence to make Zimmerman want to fold and not go to trial. Do I know what that evidence is? No! But this DA is very good and very strategic.

He's in rough shape now and the distress of these last few weeks has made lose weight and he became isolated from everyone. He wants to talk even without an attorney and his former lawayers quit because he isn't thinking straight. It seems that they couldn't neither control him nor advise him.


It may be that their main impetus for quitting on GZ was his increasingly erratic behavior. I think they also may have been getting more and more clues that this guys story was 100% bogus; that he was not a cause they wanted to be associated with, and that helped persuade them to bail.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 08:39 am
@snood,
Yeah! more of the the evidence I had read the other day was that prior to the killing, he had some behavior that had a hyper-vigilant focus about blacks walking around in the community. While on a previous neighborhood watch, he reported to police what turned out to be a skinny 7-9 yr old black child walking in the community.

Here's a Youtube video of a news report about history in the last year of the 40 calls Zimmerman made (mostly about blacks) suspicious activity in this community.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSG84WeaiuM
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 08:47 am
I heard a lawyer interviewed this morning saying that if they can convince the jury that the voice screaming for help for 30 seconds before the gunshot was Trayvon, that Murder II shouldn't be that hard to prove.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 09:22 am
@snood,
And that's already nearly proven, evidently. Zimmerman's voice has been ruled out, and there were only two voices. They didn't have a sample of Trayvon's voice to compare last I knew, but there is probably a way to find one. (Maybe that's how interviewing the girlfriend came into this -- I wouldn't be surprised if he'd left her a voice message at some point that she was able to provide.)
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 09:25 am
@sozobe,
Apparently Zimmerman made a cellphone call to his gf just around the time this crime was being committed.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 09:32 am
@Ragman,
Zimmerman or Trayvon?

Trayvon did, right, and of course that's another reason to interview the girlfriend. Would have been more accurate for me to say "maybe that's one of the things they discovered when they talked to the girlfriend."
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 10:16 am
In an interview this morning, Trayvon's mother mentioned, among other things, that she thought the shooting of her son could have been an accident.

She's really been a tower of strength and grace through this whole ordeal. Just a day before the news that Zimmerman would be charged, she called for calm and patience in the community. This from someone who would have every right to exhibit impatience with the system, IMO.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 10:18 am
@sozobe,
Sorry! You're right. I meant Trayvon.


By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) and SENI TIENABESO (@senijr_abc)

SANFORD, Fla., March 20, 2012



"A phone call from slain black teenager Trayvon Martin to his girlfriend seconds before he was shot dead by a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain "blows ... out of the water" the shooter's self-defense claim and he should be arrested "right now," a lawyer for Martin's family said today.

Attorney Benjamin Crump spoke after ABC News reported exclusively the existence of a phone call between Martin and his girlfriend, which detailed the last terrifying moments of Martin's life as he was pursued, accosted and shot dead by George Zimmerman.

Police accepted Zimmerman's claim of self-defense and have charged him with no crime.

"This young lady connects the dots," said Crump. "Arrest George Zimmerman for the killing of Trayvon Martin in cold blood, today."
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 12:30 pm
@Ragman,
I don't think that we know that George is "self appointed"...we know that he was active in creating the group and that he ended up in charge, but there is no information in this thread about lack of consent from the neighborhood. This seems to be one of many ways that the partipants in this thread and "journalism" shows its prejudice against George in violation of the known facts.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 12:34 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

Zimmerman or Trayvon?




Question: How come this is not "Zimmerman or Martin" or "George or Travon"??

Answer: The prejudice and bias of the speaker.
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 12:42 pm
@hawkeye10,
Two things.

1.) It's the way that they're usually identified. We all know who Trayvon is, we all know who Zimmerman is. "George" and "Martin" are not as automatic.

2.) Trayvon is (was) a kid. That's standard, to refer to a kid by his/ her first name and an adult by his/ her last name.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 12:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
Firstly, as you may or may not have noticed from quote marks and italics, the wording is not mine. It's the wording as was reported from Matt Gutman of ABC (and SENI TIENABESO) . Feel free take up this issue with the journalistst.

Secondly, who cares whether or not Zimmerman was self-appointed or appointed or elected? That's nit-picking. It doesn't change a thing. Why is it that the subject's not being addressed about the phone call from Trayvon from his g/f and/or the impact that has on the evidence?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 04:47 pm
@Ragman,
Who cares? I care. I know propaganda when I see it, and I would rather have journalism. Most of the "reporting" on George and the Nazi's late 30's "reporting" on the jews varies only in degree of whipping up the ignorant masses in hopes of furthering an agenda. Just as the Germans did we eat this **** up.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2012 05:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawk, your getting damn near as crazy as I am.
0 Replies
 
 

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