15
   

Italian Cruise Ship Disaster

 
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

firefly wrote:

Quote:
Costa Concordia captain ‘cried like a baby’ after the crash
Agence France-Presse
Jan 20, 2012

ROME — The captain of the wrecked Costa Concordia cruise ship “cried like a baby” as he hugged its chaplain hours after the Costa’s crash, the luxury liner’s priest said in an interview Friday.

That priest does not think much of confidentiality.


Well, in all fairness, David, this alleged weeping jag was not within the sanctum sanctorum of a confessional.





hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:13 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Ya, the people who sign his paycheck have more sway than do his vows. I however am weird, I am not impressed with tears, so the attempt at manipulation falls flat.
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
Besides, those tears could have been for more nefarious reasons that may be revealed later on.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
I note that making a billion dollar mistake and killing tens of people is a good reason to cry.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Let be fair Hawkeye it more like half a billion dollars error not a full billion.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:49 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Let be fair Hawkeye it more like half a billion dollars error not a full billion.


The boat alone is over $600 million, and is a tottal loss. The liability claims will be huge, the lost rev huge as well.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye thanks to the way the laws are written, at least by way of the TV talking heads, the civil liability will amount to little and I am not sure that the ship is a total write off either.

Ships on their sides had been righten and re-floated before.

The example that come to mind is that one of the battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor was on it side and they was able to righten and re-floated it with 1940s technology.

I can not think of it name however it was one of the battleships that fought the Japanness at the battle of Leyte Gulf in 1944.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Great point - I was also thinking - what sort of people do they hire as a captain? How do they choose? Are they are low paying (or lower paying than you would expect) - as it seems in general people that are hired to work on cruises?
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
my thoughts exactly - tears because he is afraid of being thrown in prison or getting caught by his wife of this perhaps other woman.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:35 pm
Quote:
Analysis: Italy disaster shows Titanic lifeboat issues linger
By Jonathan Saul and Ben Berkowitz
LONDON/BOSTON | Fri Jan 20, 2012

LONDON/BOSTON (Reuters) - The capsizing of the Costa Concordia will pressure the cruise industry to address a safety question that has lingered since the Titanic disaster almost 100 years ago - how to get thousands of people off a giant cruise ship into lifeboats quickly.

Carnival Corp, owner of the Concordia, conceded on Thursday that the accident, which has led to the deaths of at least 11 people with another 24 unaccounted for out of its 4,200 passengers and crew, "has called into question our company's safety and emergency response procedures." A Carnival spokesman could not immediately comment on whether the company's safety review would include the lifeboats.

Veteran mariners say the Concordia wreck - particularly the problems the passengers encountered in launching lifeboats as the ship listed to one side - proves there are problems the industry, try though it might, still has not solved.

"The regulations rely on untrained and frightened passengers being able to deal with life rafts in the absence of trained crew members - including having to board them from the water," said John Dalby, a former oil tanker captain who now runs maritime security firm Marine Risk Management.

"The whole point of the Titanic regulations was to avoid what happened with her, and it has now happened again with Costa - that is, the difficulty, if not impossibility, of launching lifeboats from the 'high side,'" Dalby said, referring to the side of the boat tipped into the air.

In the wake of the Titanic disaster, maritime regulations make it mandatory for all ships to have a minimum of 125 percent lifeboat and life raft capacity, comprising 50 percent on each side of the ship plus an additional 25 percent available. According to the International Chamber of Shipping, they are designed to be ready for use within 5 minutes and to be filled as quickly as needed.

But all of that is for naught if the lifeboats cannot get into the water, or if the ship finds itself in distress in adverse conditions - late at night, in a storm or far from land, for example.

That was the lesson the Titanic first taught in 1912, when - besides not having enough lifeboats on board - some lifeboats did not launch properly in the ship's final, harried minutes.

"The frightening thing is how quickly the ship went on its side. If it had been out to sea there would have been a massive loss of life," said one marine underwriter at the Lloyd's of London insurance market.

"It's very similar to the Titanic disaster. The Titanic hit an iceberg and opened up like a can of sardines."

SHIPBUILDING CHALLENGE

One veteran mariner said in a dire situation, there are certain judgment calls the ship's captain has to make.

"The requirement for lifeboats is that they should be capable of being launched from a ship with a list of up to 20 degrees," said Tom Allan, a naval architect and expert on maritime safety who has held senior positions in several regulatory bodies including the International Maritime Organisation.

"If it gets to more than 20 degrees, I would suggest that a lot of lifeboats could still be launched, but then it gets to a stage where the master has to make a decision as to whether it's safe to launch them."

Yet the question of the lifeboats aside, Allan and others in the industry generally believe that not only are large cruise liners safe, in some ways they offer more safety than older, smaller ships.

"Ships grew in average size over the past 10 years, but of course safety measures were adjusted accordingly," said a spokesman for Meyer Werft, the German shipyard that has been building cruise liners for more than 30 years.

Considered one of the industry's "big three," the German yard has built ships for nine different lines, including Carnival units Holland America and P&O.

"Aviation and shipping are very different from, for instance, the automotive sector. There is a lot more redundancy in safety systems," the spokesman said. "We don't see any major impact (from Costa Concordia) on the industry because we do not have a fundamental crisis on our hands."

OPEN QUESTIONS

One European regulator acknowledged that in extreme cases of distress, there are still questions for which the cruising industry has no answers.

"If a great number of people fall into the water, it is challenging to pick them up," said Tuomas Routa, maritime safety director for the Finnish Transport Safety Agency. "I'm sure the next new ships will be different in some way, more safe."

That could require new training in addition to design changes. One legal and maritime expert said the passenger ship industry lacked the precise training the military has, as well as the will to institute that training.

"The cruise industry is slightly unto itself," said David Loh, a maritime lawyer with Cozen O'Connor in New York and former lieutenant commander in the U.S. Navy.

"Their training and certification is different than other vessels."

Loh and others have said there may be gaps in the way training is administered and enforced worldwide. But training aside, expert sailors say in many ways the problems still come back to inexorable issues of design.

"The immediate aftermath of the Titanic was to increase lifeboat capacity to enable all people to be disembarked into boats ... and to look again at the heights of watertight bulkheads. This has been a difficult area as designs and tonnage rules have changed over the years," said Mike Smith, a retired master mariner with 45 ship commands under his belt.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/us-italy-ship-lifeboats-idUSTRE80J1UR20120120
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:36 pm
@Linkat,
I have read nothing on this so what follows is hunch only.....about 10 years ago airlines decided that pilots don't really need to do much now that planes can be flown by computer, and they demanded that computers fly the planes because computers are better at saving fuel than humans are. What they found after a few years is that pilots became less skilled, less able to handle an "unscheduled event". Airline then allowed pilots to do more piloting. Much the same thing happened in the mid 90's with railroad dispatchers.

My hunch is that since these new ships can run with out a captain because computers can do the captaining better that Carnaval does not put a lot of care into choosing good captains, and that captains never get the opportunity to learn their craft well. By the looks of it this captain was ideal from the casting department for playing captain of the Loveboat, but whether he has much in the way of captain skills is doubtful. My guess is that Carnaval knew that he does not, but never dreamed that this would matter. A 1 billion dolar loss here, and the resulting jump in insurance cost, might change their thinking.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:40 pm
@firefly,
I didn't read the whole article, but another question arises from the article. If the ship is already listing to one side, it's going to be very difficult to "drop" the lifeboats into the water, and the shifting of more passengers to one side of the ship is going to worsen the situation for all. I'm not sure there is a possible solution to this kind of situation.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I didn't read the whole article, but another question arises from the article. If the ship is already listing to one side, it's going to be very difficult to "drop" the lifeboats into the water, and the shifting of more passengers to one side of the ship is going to worsen the situation for all. I'm not sure there is a possible solution to this kind of situation.

How about loading the lifeboats before the list takes place? This captain decided to not do this, he steamed ahead, lied to the passengers aboout the problem, refused to tell his bosses for 38 minutes...and at some point far down the timeline decided to tell the coast guard the truth about the extent of the problem.

But nothing could have been done, right?
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:48 pm
Quote:
The Boston Globe
Editorial
Ship disaster raises questions for the entire cruise industry
January 20, 2012

IT IS far too convenient to blame the travails of the Costa Concordia, the cruise ship that ran aground Friday off the Italian coast, on the arrogance of Captain Francesco Schettino. Schettino allegedly ignored the ship’s well-established navigational path and sailed far too close to the shore of the Tuscan holiday island of Giglio as part of a stunt to impress the island’s residents. But pinning all the blame on Schettino depends on an antiquated notion that the captain is solely responsible for the safety of the ship. Italian and international investigators should turn their attention to why there appear to have been insufficient redundancies in the vessel’s safety system, a shortcoming that turned the captain’s unquestionable folly into an avoidable tragedy.

The Costa Concordia is part of a generation of luxury cruise megaships that are supposed to be equipped with every possible safety measure. Still, the boat listed quickly, leaving passengers scrambling to one side of the vessel as half of the life boats and other rescue equipment became submerged. One of the key lessons of the Titanic was that giant passenger ships should have design compartmentalization, akin to ice cube trays, to isolate any damage and pump water out. Crews are supposed to lock down these interior walls so that systems do not falter all at once. Those basic safety backups did not appear to work on the Costa Concordia, even though the water was calm and the weather was serene.

In addition, while the captain appears to have violated the pre-programmed route, state-of-the-art sonar should have alerted the crew to the impending disaster. In the 21st century, no modern cruise line depends solely on navigational charts, which Schettino claims did not map out the rocky terrain below. Nor did any crew member seem aware that visible rocks were just feet from the ship’s path...

The cruise industry operates without much regulation. Its relatively safe history, and the requirement of insurers who generally insist on annual security inspections for ships that cost over half a billion dollars, has allowed ship operators to avoid the kind of oversight governing international air travel. The United Nation’s International Maritime Organization monitors a series of international conventions on passenger safety and industry standards, but it has little enforcement capability.

All of this should change, regardless of how much Schettino is to blame. He may be a deserving scapegoat for his bosses at Carnival Corp. But he is not the only one at fault. A century after the Titanic disaster, it’s inconceivable that one bad decision still brought down a ship that had been designed to withstand more than a single error in judgment.
http://bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2012/01/20/ship-disaster-raises-questions-for-entire-cruise-industry/RhNkPrlAE7gn2OlCatmlJJ/story.html

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 03:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
That would depend greatly on available time and speed, the condition of the water, and the training for such eventualities of the staff - that changes on regular rotations.
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 04:00 pm
Carnival Cruises has suspended advertising for the time being, which is probably a good idea.
Quote:

Carnival suspended broadcast, digital and direct-mail marketing for its namesake line “for the time being,” Vance Gulliksen, a spokesman for the Miami-based company, said yesterday in an e-mail
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Carnival+suspends+advertising/6026995/story.html

And the review of safety issues on all their cruise ships is essential if they want to regain and maintain consumer confidence.
Quote:
Carnival Corp. to conduct fleet-wide cruise ship safety review
By Beverly Beyette
January 20, 2012

The Costa Concordia disaster, in which at least 11 lives were lost and 21 people are missing, has spurred Carnival Corp.to conduct a fleet-wide review of its cruise ships’ safety and emergency response procedures.

While expressing "every confidence" in the safety of its 100 ships — which include the fleets of Costa Cruises, Cunard, Holland America, Princess and Seabourn — Micky Arison, chairman and CEO of Miami-based Carnival, said the company wants “to make sure that this kind of accident doesn’t happen again.”

Passengers described a scene of chaos, with the crew unprepared and overwhelmed, after the Concordia ran aground and capsized last Friday off the Italian island of Giglio.

The review will be led by retired U.S. Navy Capt. James Hunn, Carnival’s senior vice president of maritime policy and compliance, and will include officer and crew training and bridge management. Outside experts in the cruise industry will audit Carnival’s emergency response and safety procedures and will also review the Costa Concordia accident.
http://www.latimes.com/travel/deals/la-trb-carnival-corp-safety-review-20120120,0,2378961.story


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 04:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

That would depend greatly on available time and speed, the condition of the water, and the training for such eventualities of the staff - that changes on regular rotations.

He hit rocks because he drove too close to an island.....so why the need to keep going to as it is claimed try to find a better spot to abandon ship? An island works right? This is a clear lie, this guy did not understand the magnitude of the problem, he did not think that he was going to have to unload away from a dock. This is about the seventh or eigth major error he made that night.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 04:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'd imagine he didn't stop it as it couldn't be stopped at that moment. Ships don't stop on a dime.
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 04:10 pm
Quote:
Carnival has insurance for damage to the vessel, with a deductible of about $30 US million as well as insurance for third- party personal injury liability subject to an additional deductible of about $10 US million for this incident, according to a Jan. 16 statement. The company self-insures for loss of use of the vessel.

Lost Bookings

For the year ending Nov. 30, the loss of the ship will cut earnings by about $85 US million to $95 US million, or 11 US cents to 12 US cents a share, Carnival has said. The company anticipates other costs that aren’t possible to determine at this time.

So far, the cruise industry doesn't seem to be suffering.
Quote:
Cruise bookings haven’t dropped notably since the Concordia capsized off the coast of Italy, an industry executive said, while calling for a review of safety procedures.

There has been no significant reduction in activity so far since the Jan. 13 grounding, Christine Duffy, president and chief executive officer of the Cruise Lines International Association, said at a briefing in London yesterday.


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Carnival+suspends+advertising/6026995/story.html
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 04:16 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

I'd imagine he didn't stop it as it couldn't be stopped at that moment. Ships don't stop on a dime.

The do however come with brakes and a steering wheel....he could have circled the island as they slowwed down. The list did not happen for 20 minutes. This time was waisted.
 

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