15
   

Italian Cruise Ship Disaster

 
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 11:54 am
@Linkat,
Quote:
Although I'd imagine at least as much as we know now - that some that we told to go back to their cabins instead of going to the life boats may have survived.

But, the crew may have been instructed to tell people to return to their cabins, and to try to maintain calm--and the crew may not even have been aware of the dire seriousness of the situation. We don't know who was communicating instructions to the crew about how to handle the situation, or how informed the crew actually was.
Quote:
If water rushed in where the hole was and there were crew in that area - those deaths may have been unavoidable as well.

Because the ship tilted, staircases became vertical or not fully upright, some passengers had to crawl on their knees on those staircases to get toward the deck and some were falling. It wasn't just that people drowned when water came in. Some couldn't physically make it out to get to the lifeboat area. Those that were left would have drowned, or died of hypothermia after a day or two. Trying to locate all of those people quickly enough to save them might not have been possible. They still haven't recovered all of the bodies.

We are going to need the investigation to piece together all the fragments we know about, and that's all we have now, fragments. I don't think we can draw conclusions from them about the overall behavior of the crew.

But we do know that the crew got most of the people off the ship.



Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 11:59 am
@firefly,
We don't know the crew got the people off the ship though - many jumped into the freezing water - the crew didn't need to be there to get them off the ship - it seems (at least what survivors have reported) that they got themselves off the ship - the crew was no where to be found.

All the others I mentioned could have saved lives, if you noticed I said may have survived - we won't know until all data is collected.
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:00 pm
@firefly,
I agree with your assessment of the situation. When panic takes over with 4200 passengers, it's quite amazing the number that lost lives - IMHO.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Hell there seems to be less panic by the passengers then the crew!!!!!!!!!

Telling anyone to return to their cabins instead of the boat deck is so stupid it should bring manslaughter charges on alone it anyone who listen to that command had die as a result.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:13 pm
I just watched a documentary about cruises - telling more about the working people than the tourists.
The jobs are terribly badly paid. The working hours unbelievable. The crew comes from all over the world and of course they can communicate, but how well can they do it in such an situation. Everybody must be afraid.
They showed also life of the tourists. Drinks, wine and alcolhol was plenty.
It must be a big difference in training during daylight and a real disaster at night, with no light and lots of drunk people getting panic. And not only drunks, there were blind people and people in wheel chairs, small children.
It is amazing that relativly few drowned.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:15 pm
@saab,
Quote:
lots of drunk people getting panic



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0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:20 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
the crew didn't need to be there to get them off the ship - it seems (at least what survivors have reported) that they got themselves off the ship - the crew was no where to be found

That's not true.

Some people jumped off the ship, yes, but not most. The crew was assisting the rescue efforts, they were lowing and manning those lifeboats, they were searching for those who might have been below deck.

From the PHILIPPINES...

Quote:
Costa Concordia: Filipino waiters and cooks hailed as national heroes
01/20/2012
PHILIPPINES

Almost 300 members of the ship’s crew are from the Philippines. They helped passengers evacuate the ship, putting their own lives on the line. Their action has been seen around the country thanks to an amateur video shot during the rescue operation.

Manila (AsiaNews) – Two-hundred ninety-six Filipinos (pictured) working on the MS Costa Concordia as waiters, dishwaters, cooks and cleaners have become national heroes for saving hundreds of passengers during the ship’s evacuation.

Now partially submerged, the Costa Concordia is a cruise ship that capsized off Giglio Island, in Tuscany (Italy), after it ran aground. The ship’s captain, Francesco Schettino, is under house arrest for dereliction of duty when he abandoned ship before all passengers were rescued. He is currently the object of an international media campaign. The ship’s operators, Costas Cruisers, are trying to lay all the blame for the accident on him.

The actions of the Filipino staff have made the front pages of Filipino newspapers. An amateur video made by a crewmember shows waiters, cooks and stewardesses, going around helping injured and panic-stricken passengers.

News reports have highlighted survivors’ stories, describing the heroic behaviour of Filipino staff on the Costa Concordia.

“Those who helped us were cooks and stewardesses, all Filipinos," a French tourist said. “They roped themselves together to help us get down to the lifeboats.”

Soon after the incident, President Aquino said, “You are men and women of courage, heroism and dedication. We commend you for showing to the world the best traits of the Filipino seafarershttp://www.asianews.it/news-en/Costa-Concordia:-Filipino-waiters-and-cooks-hailed-as-national-heroes-23756.html

From INDIA...
Quote:
HYDERABAD
,January 20, 2012
Costa crew members safe home

Inside the Rajiv Gandhi International Airport at Shamshabad the air was emotionally charged on Thursday, when crew members from the star-crossed luxury liner Costa Concordia arrived home into anxious hugs of near and dear ones.

Smiles, sobs and squeezing embraces awaited the seven crew members from the city who escaped from the ship that ran aground off the Italian coast on Friday. Two more members are expected to arrive on Friday.

The vessel had 4,200 people on board, and at least 11 are suspected to have been killed in the incident. The search for missing persons is on, even as the ship is sinking bit by bit.

Three hundred Indians worked on the ship, of who, nine were from Hyderabad. They had all joined the kitchen crew a year ago after completing their course in Hotel Management from the Culinary Academy of India, Begumpet.

After alighting from the Emirates flight at about 8 p.m., the crew members Jonathan Paturi, Srinu Reddy, Suresh Chari, B. Srikanth Yadav, Ravikumar Dharani, Shashidhar, and Ramesh Babu were greeted by excited family members who burst into tears on seeing them. Garlands and flower bouquets, apart from squeals of joy animated the vicinity for a while.

They were all flown down from Rome with a transit halt of eight hours in Dubai. The Ministry of External Affairs in co-ordination with the Ministry of Overseas Indians Affairs organised their return. They did not get a hero's welcome for nothing back home. If not for their swift response in the moment of crisis, many lives would have been lost.

“When the incident happened, we were on the third deck. As we came to know of what was happening, we ran to the fourth deck and immediately got into rescue operations,” recalled Jonathan Paturi whose family stays in Moulali.

Each crew member had one life boat capacious enough to carry 100 passengers. Jonathan recounts that he must have led at least 450 passengers to safety by ferrying them in round trips to the island nearby. Though many lost valuables in the haste that ensued, Costa, the company which owned the cruise liner promised to dispatch whichever valuables it could salvage from the wreck...
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyderabad/article2815032.ece

Quote:
Jan. 16: Indian staff of the Costa Concordia, the cruise liner that keeled over off the Tuscan coast, have challenged claims that the crew had deserted passengers and were too busy saving themselves.

“We have heard of reports (about the unseemly behaviour of the crew) but they are not true. The Indian crew members made themselves safe because if we are not safe, how can we save others? Then, we saved the lives of others. We were the last to come off,” Santosh Lelhal, 31, a security guard who hails from Mumbai, told The Telegraph today.

It emerged today that of the 203 Indians on board, only one was a passenger and the person has been listed as safe. The remaining 202 Indians belonged to the crew, of which one — Terence Russell Rebello — is missing. A crew member told this newspaper that Rebello, a waiter, was last seen helping passengers.

Damning headlines in the Daily Mail and elsewhere — “Forget women and children first. Burly crewmen led the race for the lifeboats” — were discounted by Lelhal and others, at least as far as the Indian crew were concerned.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120117/jsp/frontpage/story_15015659.jsp


Quote:
James Thomas, Costa Concordia Hero, Acted As Human Ladder To Save Passengers

British teenager James Thomas had only been working aboard the Costa Concordia for six months when the cruise ship capsized off the coast of Tuscany last Friday.

But when panic erupted in the rush to get the ship's 4,200 passengers to safety, the 19-year-old dancer demonstrated composure beyond his years by turning himself a human ladder to allow dozens of men and woman to climb to safety, the Daily Mirror reports.

Thomas told the Mirror that some passengers accidentally went to the wrong floor, one level above the loading dock, as they raced to reach the ship's life boats.

Realizing crew members "were going to have to do something drastic," Thomas stretched his 6 foot 3 inch frame across the gap and allowed passengers to climb down his body into the rafts below.

"We couldn't get the lifeboats off and the life rafts the staff use were stuck to the side of the ship. It was frightening. People couldn't get down, the drop was too far, so I lowered myself into position. I grabbed the lifeboat with one arm and the upper deck rail with the other and let people climb on my shoulder and down my body," Thomas told the Daily Mirror.

As for his own escape, Thomas said he was later pulled into a lifeboat by other passengers.

"The last people I helped were a Frenchman and his disabled wife. He grabbed me by the cuff and pulled me into one of the boats," Thomas told the Mirror..,

According to Reuters, most of the ship's 1,023 crew members were hired to run its many bars, casinos, swimming pools, and theaters and were not qualified seamen.

"I wouldn't blame the crew. I think they behaved as professionally as possible," Marco Mandirola, President of the IBLA, an association representing tugboat operators and harbor pilots," told Reuters. "Onboard personnel that aren't part of the ship's crew do a series of courses but they're not sailors.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/17/costa-concordia-disaster-james-thomas-british-teenager-dancer_n_1210495.html




Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:26 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Two-hundred ninety-six Filipinos (pictured) working on the MS Costa Concordia as waiters, dishwaters, cooks and cleaners have become national heroes for saving hundreds of passengers during the ship’s evacuation.


Isn't this what I had been saying? It was not the crew in the sense captain, crew responsible for the passenager's safety but cooks, kitchen help, etc - those that ended up being the heros - I will find my quote. And I worded at them being the heros.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:28 pm
@Linkat,
My quote...

Quote:
All we currently have is many reports from some of the cruise passenagers who experienced it. Unfortunately for the crew, the passengers, at least at this stage, seem to feel the crew was clueless and of no help and the only help them seemed to get were from those individuals with the least knowledge - like cooks and kitchen help.

But honestly it is hard to know - knowing the media - they are going pull the stories that make the most exciting stuff - so saying that all the captain's crew helped and did their job is less exciting than saying the cowards went and saved themselves and the lowly workers were heros saving the terrified passengers.


I am saying the same thing as you - just that I was referring to crew as the professional sailors/seamen rather than the "workers".
saab
 
  3  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:34 pm
@Linkat,
I really did not mean the professional sailors - it was about the cooks, cleaners, waiters and waitresses. When one takes the salary and the amount of hours they worked per month the hourly salary was something like 2 dollars.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:36 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
Isn't this what I had been saying? It was not the crew in the sense captain, crew responsible for the passenager's safety but cooks, kitchen help, etc - those that ended up being the heros

But, those cooks, kitchen help, etc. are the people/crew pressed into action in a situation like this to actually assist, rescue, and evacuate, the passengers. The Captain and ship's officers etc. are responsible for coordinating the action, not single-handedly rescuing 4200 people.

And even the Captain didn't bolt from the ship immediately. Nor would 4200 passengers necessarily know what the Captain and officers were, or were not, doing during the evacuation, so I doubt the reliability of these passenger reports right now.

We do both agree that we don't know the full story yet.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 12:54 pm
@firefly,
Passengers said there was almost no help from crew with the evacuation. Metcalf recalled: ''We were literally throwing each other. We were creating human chains to try and pass people over gaps that, if they dropped down, there was no recovery from. What was vertical was becoming horizontal.''

Discipline broke down among the crew and many passengers reported that it was waiters, chefs and entertainers who helped with the evacuation. Englishwoman Sandra Rogers, 62, later told the Daily Mail: ''There was no 'women and children first' policy. There were big men, crew members, pushing past us to get into the lifeboats. It was disgusting.''

It was Roberto Bosio, the off-duty captain from a sister ship travelling on the liner as a passenger, who stayed behind to man the bridge after it was abandoned. Two other Italian officers also stayed to try to bring order to the chaos.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/nation-that-went-down-with-a-ship-20120120-1qa83.html#ixzz1k1ftTbjz

But this is the passengers accounts - we will need to see the final outcome of all the data once it is obtained.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:00 pm
There's an AP report this morning that says the captain finally has a champion -- a Moldavian woman with whom he was having dinner when ship struck rock. She claims he acted heroically throughout the whole thing. As a Russian-speaker she was mmediately enlisted to help instruct some of the Russian passengers on board and so was in the thick of the evacuation action. Seems she might have some slight ias in her report, however I'll see if I can dig up a link. (Got the info from the local paper.)
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:04 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
''There was no 'women and children first' policy. There were big men, crew members, pushing past us to get into the lifeboats. It was disgusting.''

Actually, there is no "women and children first" policy. I recently read about that.

The policy should be to evacuate the most vulnerable--the disabled, or elderly, and children, first. But, when people are in a panic and extremely fearful of losing their lives, they don't always follow conventions, or act in a cooperative manner, and it becomes more like, "every man for himself".

It's hard to know how one might react in such a situation. Not everyone wants to be noble or selfless or altruistic. Some just want to save their own skin. I'm sure some passengers acted like that as well.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:05 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Here's one link:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/285199/20120120/who-domnica-cemortan-mystery-woman-costa-concordia.htm
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:09 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
And another:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2089052/Domnica-Cemortan-Was-Costa-Concordia-captain-Francesco-Schettino-trying-impress-ballerina.html

I predict that this Domnica Cemortan will become a household name in a very, very short time. Don't know what's being said on FB or Twitter.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:23 pm
Quote:
Costa Concordia captain ‘cried like a baby’ after the crash
Agence France-Presse
Jan 20, 2012

ROME — The captain of the wrecked Costa Concordia cruise ship “cried like a baby” as he hugged its chaplain hours after the Costa’s crash, the luxury liner’s priest said in an interview Friday.

Interviewed by French magazine Famille Chrétienne, Father Raffaele Malena said he was among the last to leave the ship at around 1:30 a.m local time on Saturday and then stayed “close to the injured” in the tiny harbour of Giglio.

“I descended on the rope ladder. I was picked up by a little lifeboat,” said Father Malena, who has returned to his village of Ciro Marina in Calabria.

“At around 2:30 a.m. I spoke to the captain (Francesco Schettino). He embraced me for about a quarter of an hour and cried like a baby,” Father Malena said...

The head of the vessel’s owner, Costa Cruises, meanwhile said in an interview with the Corriere della Sera daily published Friday that the captain had warned the company too late of the scale of the disaster.

Pier Luigi Foschi said the first call from Francesco Schettino to Costa came at 10:05 p.m.— almost half-an-hour after the ship hit rocks.

The announcement to evacuate the ship came 68 minutes after that call.

“This hour and more of delay is not normal. It’s unjustified,” Mr. Foschi said, adding: “I can’t sleep at night…. If the ship had been abandoned earlier we wouldn’t have lost human lives.”

Of Capt. Schettino, he said: “He has always been considered very able on a technical level… but he could have some small problems with his character even if nothing emerged on a formal level.”

“He was seen as a bit hard on his colleagues. He liked to show off.”

Mr. Foschi said he realised the scale of the disaster “only when the evacuation signal was issued.”...

For the future, the Costa boss said the company would install the same alerts on land as on the ship to be warned if the vessel was steering off course and would increase the powers of the company to overrule captains.

He added: “Something like this will never happen again. Never again.”...

Father Malena, the 73-year-old ship’s chaplain, who has worked for Costa for around 20 years, also praised the bravery of crew members amid panic during the evacuation.

“There were heroes of all nationalities… They were shaking with fear. They were threatened. They were telling people to stop boarding lifeboats which were full but people were getting in anyway,” he said.

The Catholic priest said he was also angry at some of the passengers, “who are going to sue because they have lost 30, 40 or 50,000 euros in jewels.”

“Me, I defend the weak. Not the rich and the billionaires,” he added.

The priest said he went to pray for a few moments in the ship’s chapel before leaving the ship.

“Baby Jesus was still in his manger. I told him, crying like a child: ‘We are all about to die. I’m asking you for nothing short of a miracle. Please let as few people die as possible!’”
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/20/costa-concordia-captain-cried-like-a-baby-after-the-crash-rescue-operations-suspended-amid-choppy-seas/
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 01:57 pm
@firefly,
I'm telling you this is going be an all out soap opera - the captain is married with a child. He is out (some reports say) drinking with this beautiful young dancer - who by the way has worked aboard this ship and there is doubt she was registered as a passenger.

All the makings of a twisted soap opera.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:03 pm
@firefly,
Si if he did not pass on any info to the bosses for 38 minutes how long did it take him to get correct info to the coast guard? There is no avoiding condemnation of Carnival.....they picked this guy.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2012 02:08 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
Costa Concordia captain ‘cried like a baby’ after the crash
Agence France-Presse
Jan 20, 2012

ROME — The captain of the wrecked Costa Concordia cruise ship “cried like a baby” as he hugged its chaplain hours after the Costa’s crash, the luxury liner’s priest said in an interview Friday.
That priest does not think much of confidentiality.





David
 

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