I predict - Sandusky will never go to trial and never see a jail cell.

@hawkeye10,

I agree with you Hawkeye10.

College football is a cesspool of money, injuries and maniacal pride.

I'm in favor on giving NCAA Football the death penalty.
Play four more years of games and then, that's it.
No more College Level Farm Teams for the NFL parading around as if their activity had anything to do with the academic structures known institutes of higher learning.

If the NFL wants more players, let them start farm teams in major cities or other wastelands.

Joe(like Texas and Oklahoma)Nation

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

You are aware that you are now sure to get struck by lightning.....right?

Agreeing with me is not acceptable, hell you should not even be talking to me!

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I am very concerned that I shall be struck TWICE by lightening. First, godhelpusall, I agreed with you, you sorry thing, BUT more dangerously, I am advocating the end of College Football.

I am no longer allowed to travel within the States of Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Mississippi or Georgia, even with an armed guard.

In Florida, the armed guard would probably just shoot me three times in the head "while he was cleaning his gun in the parking lot."

Joe("Would have been kilt my God anyways", the crowd muttered.)Nation

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

the NCAA is the one organization which is most responsible for the creation of this culture problem.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but this is ridiculous.

We are all responsible, at least those of us who claim to be fans. We adulate the coaches and football stars. Name the last three presidents of universities who received their highest award. In fact, name the award. Name the universities who had the highest academic standing the last three years.

You might be able to, or look it up, but ask 20 people that question.

The NCAA might be flawed, but responsible? Hardly.

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@Joe Nation,

You left OHIO out. And living in SEC territory these days, all of the south east.

Think about all the good that could be done with all that money.

I'll say it again. We love to form up in packs and fight with each other. Isn't that what college football is about? Being a Buckeye, I understand. It fills a very basic human need.

1 Reply

@IRFRANK,

IRFRANK wrote:

You left OHIO out. And living in SEC territory these days, all of the south east.

Think about all the good that could be done with all that money.

I'll say it again. We love to form up in packs and fight with each other. Isn't that what college football is about? Being a Buckeye, I understand. It fills a very basic human need.

Mens football and basketball pay for all of the rest of the athletics (the womens teams get paid for by the mens programs) and a great part of the university general fundraising revolves around the football programs. This must be kept in mind when talking about getting rid of football. In an age where taxpayers no longer want to pay for universities with taxes and with universites now being so expensive to operate figuring out where the money comes from is step one in trying to fix our broken universities.

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Unfortunately the Paterno family does not have enough class to admit that Joe made a mistake. They have put out some nonesense about how they will do their own investigation and get back to us at some point in the distant future.

They have no access to the evidence.

More people who think that I am stupid. Great.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

More people who think that I am stupid. Great.

No one thinks you're stupid. We maybe some do, but I don't.

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@hawkeye10,

Universities and colleges in the rest of the world manage to get by without football-based funding. I am sure that American universities would be able to figure out a way to do the same.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Yeah, but they are socialists. Is college soccer big in Europe?

1 Reply

@IRFRANK,

Dunno. If I google.ca college soccer, I get articles about the U.S.

If anyone is interested, I did find this

http://www.eua.be/eudis/

Quote:

European Universities Diversifying Income Streams

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Is 65 to old to go back to school?

I want to go to the University of Bologna. Regardless of how good their football team is.

Getting an education in a place with that much history would be amazing.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Mens football and basketball pay for all of the rest of the athletics (the womens teams get paid for by the mens programs) and a great part of the university general fundraising revolves around the football programs. This must be kept in mind when talking about getting rid of football.

This is a fair statement. While football might be a money loser at some colleges, at Penn State is it clearly a big winner and is an economic engine for the whole area. The only reason to do the death penalty thing would be to make sure that Penn State people understand that maintaining the football team is not paramount to every other concern. I think there are other ways to do that. (An example of a school doing the death penalty is when Tulane University found out their players were point shaving. The school killed the team rather than have the NCAA investigate and assign penalties. That team was reasonably successful but not the huge cash engine Penn State football is.) I think the movement to remove the Paterno statue on campus is more appropriate here. The "let's not let one bad decision detract from all the good he did" argument is like saying "let's not let Watergate detract from all the good Nixon did." Paterno's "one bad decision" is really huge and his legacy is much more than tarnished, it is corroded through. Removing the statue would make the statement that the Penn State administration understands that.

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@engineer,

I understand your point, but it was not one bad decision. It was several bad decisions by several people. There were many opportunities for someone to make the right one decision. That's why it is systemic. The culture of "We Are Penn State" was pervasive and keeping that safe was more important than the welfare of children. Arrogance is often unfounded and often results in disaster.

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@engineer,

Quote:

Paterno's "one bad decision" is really huge and his legacy is much more than tarnished, it is corroded through.

That is your opinion, not a statement of fact. You must leave open the possibility that reasonable people might disagree with you. The officials at Penn St last I heard have taken the position that the Penn St community will decide this issue, that the opinion of outsiders is irrelevant. I think this is reasonable, they know Paterno better than we do, and they have free will so if the want to honor the guy for all the good things that he did this is their right.

As you know I take a very dim view of people who insist upon trying to ramrod their will down other peoples throats. I dont think much of people who have no connection the Penn St demanding that the monument be removed. They are as always free to refuse to have a statue of Joe on their property, and that is as far as their rights take them.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Youre losing ground because just this very morning, it was announced that they are tearing down the PAterno Statue , at the entrance of Beaver Stadium.
This is huge because this area, known as "Paternoville" is a symbolic action that MUST be taken , now that the Freeh report has substantially tarnished the actions of Paterno, and the senior Penn State admin.

There is no doubt, based upon foensic evidence that Spannier, Paterno, and the others , were involved in a coverup of the entire
affair back in the late 1990's and even earlier.

Whether Spannier will serve some jail time should now be the extended topic of conversation.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/penn-state-orders-removal-paterno-statue-football-stadium-article-1.1119556?localLinksEnabled=false

To top it off, its rumored that NCAA will be seeking the "Death penalty" for the Penn State Football program. The question is "How long will it last?"

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Youre losing ground because just this very morning

I have no connection to Penn St, thus no ground to lose.

Quote:

To top it off, its rumored that NCAA will be seeking the "Death penalty" for the Penn State Football program. The question is "How long will it last?

I think this would be a mistake, but I have never cared about College Football, even when I was at MSU. I have never been to a game. I also am gravely concerned about the failure of the University and believe that too much focus on athletics is partly to blame, so I am generally in favor of shrinkage.

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@hawkeye10,

Sorry but Your overarching "Confidence of your own authority" on this subject would say otherwise. I think that discussing such things to completion before full disclosures are avaliable are what I find funny avout how we seem to believe in the power of the internet.

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@hawkeye10,

Penn States program in fooball is almost a national model that is one of the reasons that PAterno was reverred. His athletes had a huuge lead on actual graduations and grad school acceptances of any NCAA program. (even for Schools like Stanford).
The model was later adopted and put into practice at many of the other land grants and even the elites.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Paterno's "one bad decision" is really huge and his legacy is much more than tarnished, it is corroded through.

That is your opinion, not a statement of fact. You must leave open the possibility that reasonable people might disagree with you.

Some people do disagree, yet that his reputation is trashed is a fact or we wouldn't be having this discussion. The only question is how that collapse will manifest.

hawkeye10 wrote:

The officials at Penn St last I heard have taken the position that the Penn St community will decide this issue, that the opinion of outsiders is irrelevant. I think this is reasonable, they know Paterno better than we do, and they have free will so if the want to honor the guy for all the good things that he did this is their right.

True. The movement to take down the statue is internal to the Penn State community. They will make the decision, but I think it represents an excellent response to the situation, one that makes a serious statement to the Penn State community, certainly a better one than to kill the program. To leave it up also makes a statement, but I don't think many will consider it a statement is support of Paterno's accomplishments. I think many, both inside and outside Penn State will consider it a statement that football is more important than children.

hawkeye10 wrote:

As you know I take a very dim view of people who insist upon trying to ramrod their will down other peoples throats. I dont think much of people who have no connection the Penn St demanding that the monument be removed. They are as always free to refuse to have a statue of Joe on their property, and that is as far as their rights take them.

I think their rights extend a little further in allowing them to debate the situation and express their opinions which is what we are doing here. I think this is a case where the Penn State board might be too close to the situation and would benefit from some outside opinions so I generously offer mine. If taking down the statue and renaming the stadium would allow this to blow over, Penn State wins big time. Not making a grand statement about what was a huge institutional failure in Penn State athletics will just allow the wound to fester.

1 Reply

I predict - Sandusky will never go to trial and never see a jail cell.

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