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Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 09:00 am
@Ticomaya,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Firefly:
how can we POSSIBLY believe that we live in a FREE Republic
if criminal law is subjective, per the whim of criminal prosecutors or the police????
In other words, if government ultimately decides: "well that 's OK,
because that did not gross us out and it HELPED us in our emotional desires" ??????
Ticomaya wrote:
Are you suggesting that prosecutorial discretion is a radically new concept,
and one that will alter the course of our "free" Republic?
No, not new, but it is a threat to the concept of being a government
of laws, not of men.
In the case at hand, it is undisputed that someone produced
some images and looked at them, in violation of a federal statute.
I do not believe that the statute says that it is OK to do that,
if u have certain designated motivations. Hawkeye says that it DOES.
Maybe he coud be right; I dunno. I have not seen the statute in a long time.


DAVID wrote:
If I were a US Attorney or a D.A., I 'd apply statutes mechanically,
to everyone, showing favor nor preferences to no one,
but treating everyone equally without discrimination.

I woud not consider myself to have been endowed
with authority to be a SUPER-legislature, amending statutes
nor deciding who is right or rong without judicial process.

Ticomaya wrote:
Prosecutors must have the ability to control the prosecution: to decide when to bring charges, whether to bring charges in the first place, whether to offer a plea bargain, etc. They have the responsibility to assess the facts and the evidence and decide whether or not a crime has been committed, or whether there is sufficient evidence to convict a person of the alleged crime.
It is undenied that someone produced images that allegedly
violate federal law. The evidence was presented to a police officer.



Ticomaya wrote:
There is certainly and necessarily a measure of subjectivity involved.

If you are saying that the measure of whether to prosecute or not prosecute should be fairly and uniformly applied, without preference to any particular person over another person, I agree that sort of bias should not factor in. But putting aside the issue of favoritism, each case must necessarily be assessed on its own facts, with an eye to the sufficiency of the evidence, how serious the offense is, and the culpability of the defendant.

Prosecutorial decisions cannot be strictly mechanical or formulaic.
I think that it is first necessary to decide whether the crime
is malum prohibitum or malum in se. This requires an objective,
dispassionate analysis of the facts.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 09:10 am
@Ticomaya,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Let 's slow down, Firefly: someone says that the complainant
was: "smart enough to take a picture of it" when doing so is a federal FELONY ?
I am taken aback that committing federal felonies is asserted to be "smart".
That is producing child pornografy.

Is there an exception in the statute?
Admittedly, its been quite a while since I read the statute,
but the logic of it indicates to me that both passengers
woud be (figuratively speaking) cellmates for similar federal crimes:
looking at child porn and PRODUCING child porn
(after looking at it).
Ticomaya wrote:
Do you honestly believe any prosecutor in this Country would prosecute the passenger for "producing" or "reproducing" child porn under these facts?
No.


Ticomaya wrote:
Or are you just trying to raise a theoretical point?
Yes. The complaining witness did the same thing that he was complaining about.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 09:37 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Actually the kiddie porn laws tend to be written so that do-gooders
who claim to be trying to help the state catch pervs are given a free
pass for their porn collection.
Its mildly humorous:
I remember a fellow, a conservative group leader in the 1960s,
when we were supporting Barry Goldwater. I led another conservative group.
He invited me to join his group's anti-porn efforts, in support
of censorship. (I don t believe that children were involved.)
I questioned that, based on First Amendment considerations
and I rejected his request. He said something like:
"well, u get to collect so much of it."
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 11:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David I also love how the government are using third parties to get around the bill of rights.

The government could never get away with searching all of our email looking for child porn so they make available the hash function of such jpgs to the ISPs and then the ISPs as private businesses and concern citizens do the searching for them.

An of course no one dare to complain as after all this is evil child porn and well worth tearing up the bills or rights over.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 12:17 pm
Quote:
Last Friday, a Utah judge signed Smith’s divorce decree against his wife, citing irreconcilable differences. The Smiths have two children, ages 8 and 11, court documents show


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53011701-78/smith-office-utah-boston.html.csp

And the next day he is in first class on a flight to Boston....that folks is one spectacular implosion.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 12:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well it's obvious what those 'irreconcilable differences' were, maybe now those poor kids will get the counselling they need. Their lives were over years ago.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 12:29 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Well it's obvious what those 'irreconcilable differences' were, maybe now those poor kids will get the counselling they need. Their lives were over years ago.


Hard to know yet...the ex-wife is not talking to reporters according to reports.

in other news the cops did not get around to going through his condo and university office till last night.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 12:38 pm
@izzythepush,
He now can't be alone with his own children without supervision.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 12:44 pm
@firefly,
I think that's the very least they should be doing.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 12:56 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

The government could never get away with searching all of our email looking for child porn

Well, by court order, Smith's e-mail will now be subject to being searched, as will his computers, ipods, and anything else that might contain child porn.
Quote:
An of course no one dare to complain as after all this is evil child porn

That sarcastic statement suggests you do not regard child pornography as either sufficiently abusive and exploitive of children, or sufficiently offensive, to justify attempts to control it's production and distribution, with the consumer being the final link in that chain.
Quote:
well worth tearing up the bills or rights over

The bills for payment of child porn? The rights to distribution of child porn? Rolling Eyes

Or, do you mean tearing up the Bill of Rights? Laughing

The Bill of Rights is still in effect. It sounds like Prof. Smith's constitutional and legal rights are being fully protected in this case. You are aways so hysterical and overly emotional--particularly when you defend the actions of rapists and those who view child pornography.





firefly
 
  2  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 01:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
And the next day he is in first class on a flight to Boston....that folks is one spectacular implosion.

It does indeed appear to be a spectacular implosion. His child pornography viewing might have been getting out of control, certainly his viewing of it in a public place suggests that might have been the case. Perhaps he wanted to get caught. Maybe this was some sort of cry for help.

Well, the law will help him to curb his viewing habits now, and it will give him a long time to reflect on the nature of his problems.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 01:50 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
And the next day he is in first class on a flight to Boston....that folks is one spectacular implosion.

It does indeed appear to be a spectacular implosion. His child pornography viewing might have been getting out of control, certainly his viewing of it in a public place suggests that might have been the case. Perhaps he wanted to get caught. Maybe this was some sort of cry for help.

Well, the law will help him to curb his viewing habits now, and it will give him a long time to reflect on the nature of his problems.


I consider myself to be no stranger to the lengths people will sometimes go to destroy their lives, or more often to make sure that their lives never amount to much, but this story as it now appears to be is spectacular in that regards. Even though this thread has taken a turn that I did not expect this story is well worth a thread.
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:08 pm
@firefly,
I do not regard child porn as such a threat that all repeat all of our privacy rights should be bypass in the search for such.

We Firefly or I at least I am not talking about courts orders directed at individuals but the auto searching of all email by a large majority of the ISPs in this country.

Same as if there was a search of all our snail mail in the hope of catching child porn traders.

This is a foot in the door for third parties searches in the aid of law enforcement that would be totally illegal if it was done by the government instead of third parties acting as indirect agents of the government.

Next what else are the government going to be using third parties to search for in our emails and other internet traffic.


firefly
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't know that Smith's self-destruct is any more spectacular than that of this other professor whose story I posted a few pages back.
http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2011/11/27/warwick-university-professor-charged-with-child-sex-offences-66331-29848305/

Those who use and view child pornography fit into no neat stereotype, except that something like 91% of them are male--users cut across all income and educational levels. Smith is really not much different than the many other people arrested every day for similar crimes involving possession and consumption of child pornography.

But, whether this man was self-destructive or not, the behavior he engaged in, by possessing and viewing child pornography, is destructive and abusive toward the children involved in the production of such images. I'm not prepared to see him as the victim, in any regard. And this particular man was educated enough to know he had a problem, and affluent enough to have sought help for that problem. That he failed to do so, and now must face a different set of consequences, is also his responsibility.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:25 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
But, whether this man was self-destructive or not, the behavior he engaged in, by possessing and viewing child pornography, is destructive and abusive toward the children involved in the production of such images. I'm not prepared to see him as the victim, in any regard. And this particular man was educated enough to know he had a problem, and affluent enough to have sought help for that problem. That he failed to do so, and now must face a different set of consequences, is also his responsibility


Even your red-neck dropped out of HS sitting in the swamp perv is smart enough to know that when trading and viewing kiddie porn one must be very careful. Grant Smith is not you normal kiddie porn lover, this one had a death wish.


And he got it.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Last Friday, a Utah judge signed Smith’s divorce decree against his wife, citing irreconcilable differences. The Smiths have two children, ages 8 and 11, court documents show


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53011701-78/smith-office-utah-boston.html.csp

And the next day he is in first class on a flight to Boston....that folks is one spectacular implosion.
Is that suicidal ?

I saw an account on TV of a fellow who wrote a suicide note
and then he put his arm into a rattlesnake's cage
and then he went to bed. That was an extremely painful way to die.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:35 pm
@firefly,
Seems an interesting idea instead of suicide by cop we had life as we know it suicide by child porn.

If that what it was, it would only work out well in the US as most Western Countries are not nearly as harsh in their punishments of this crime.

It is also sad for all of us that an otherwise highly educate and useful citizen will be lost to the society over this matter.

I remember when on the TV show to catch a predator a medical research scientist and MD was found in their net.

My feelings at the time was what a damn waste of human resources and abilities we are witnessing.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:38 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Well it's obvious what those 'irreconcilable differences' were, maybe now those poor kids
will get the counselling they need. Their lives were over years ago.
Based on his PUBLIC conduct, I can 't help but wonder
if he felt guilty for something and he did this as displaced anger.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:42 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
My feelings at the time was what a damn waste of human resources and abilities we are witnessing.


Take a look around Bill, wasting human resources is one of the things our society is best at. We can start with the huge percentage of the population that either has no work, not enough work, or brain/soul deadening work......but that is only the start of our human waste pile.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Tue 29 Nov, 2011 02:42 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
It is also sad for all of us that an otherwise highly educate and useful citizen will be lost to the society over this matter.


It is indeed a shame that any talents he had may be lost to society. But I doubt many will share your sadness about it.
 

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