13
   

Bad News for the A2K Anti-Spanking Lobby

 
 
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 12:38 pm
Quote:
In a study Gershoff co-authored that examined 20,000 kindergartners and their parents, she found that 89% of black parents, 79% of white parents, 80% of Hispanic parents and 73% of Asian parents said they have spanked their children.

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/10/researchers-african-americans-most-likely-to-use-physical-punishment/?hpt=hp_bn2

You are in the minority. Dont expect European style anti spanking laws to show up in America any time soon.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 13 • Views: 22,290 • Replies: 307

 
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 12:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
I never had to beat my kids. Sorry you felt you had to. I don't feel bad about my track record. One day, your kids might feel the need to hit you back. I won't be shedding a tear for you then either. They'd be due.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 01:26 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

I never had to beat my kids. Sorry you felt you had to. I don't feel bad about my track record. One day, your kids might feel the need to hit you back. I won't be shedding a tear for you then either. They'd be due.
My kids are greatfull that they have parents who care enough to instill good values and work habits, parents who did not let them run wild. Many of their friends did not grow up with the same advantages. Spanking is never a "have to" but it is a part of the "best practices" package.

Lets look as Sweden shall we?

Quote:
But in Sweden, she said, there's now a generation of adults that assumes just the opposite. About half of Swedish children were smacked in the 1970s, before the ban, Save the Children Sweden reported. In the 2000s, the number dropped to "just a few per cent."

The 1979 ban was decades in the making, from the first description of children's human rights in the 1920s, to a ban on smacking in schools in 1958, to the removal of legal language that allowed parents to hit children in 1966. Public attitudes continued to shift in the 1970s after a few high profile cases of discipline gone too far, and in 1977, Swedish Parliament created a committee to examine children's rights. Before the new policy was official, they explained the ban in pamphlets translated into several languages and printed information about it on milk cartons.

The result was Chapter 6, Section 1 of the Swedish Children and Parents Code: "Children are entitled to care, security and a good upbringing. Children are to be treated with respect for their person and individuality and may not be subjected to corporal punishment or any other humiliating treatment." It passed almost unanimously.

The section carries no penalties -- assault cases are still governed by the criminal code, and the number of assault prosecutions hasn't increased, according to a report from the Swedish government and Save the Children Sweden. Instead, adults who hit a child can expect a swift response from Swedish social services, said Joan Durrant, a family social sciences professor at University of Manitoba

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-09/world/world_sweden-punishment-ban_1_corporal-punishment-elizabeth-gershoff-parents/2?_s=PM:WORLD

SWEDISH VIOLENT CRIME PER CAPITA
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Anm%C3%A4ld_misshandel_1975-2006.svg

It appears to me that swats on the backside as children does not create violent criminals as the anti-spanking lobby claims, that what it does is teach individuals how to behave, as the pro spanking lobby claims. America, where over 75% of parents spank, has a lower crime rate than does Sweden, where few kids have been spanked in 30 years. Coincidence? I think not.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 01:45 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

I never had to beat my kids. Sorry you felt you had to. I don't feel bad about my track record. One day, your kids might feel the need to hit you back. I won't be shedding a tear for you then either. They'd be due.


Ceili, spanking is not beating, lol. I got spanked plenty, as did all my sisters - it made us pay attention and behave. I only spanked my kids (and not even hard) twice each, both times before they hit 8 yrs old. My daughter doesn't believe in spanking, but she does give them a smack on their bottom from time to time. Sometimes that's what it takes. And it's not violent.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 01:49 pm
@Mame,
For the record I have three kids and used the belt exactly once, and spanked rarely. I also always gave a warning statement. My kids knew for sure where the line was, and if they crossed it they got spanked. I often negotiated as well, but the bottom line is that when my kids crossed me, when they decided to pick a fight with me, it was preordained that they were going to lose....Every. Single. time.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 01:58 pm
Using brute force to teach anyone anything is wrong. All it teaches is the biggest bully wins. If you can't get your children to pay attention to you in non-violent ways you are a failure as a parent. I've always noticed the adults who have the least respect for their parents are the ones who were corrected with physical punishment as children. There is a lot of evidence that spanking does more harm than good, but people like Hawkeye who would fantasize about smacking a little girl's bare ass wouldn't bother to consider it.
Green Witch
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:01 pm
For any parent who thinks spanking is the answer should read this book:
The Case Against Spanking:
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Spanking-Discipline-Jossey-Bass/dp/0787903426/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321214428&sr=8-1
Mame
 
  3  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:09 pm
@Green Witch,
Well, I won't be reading it because my kids are grown up and there's no one around to spank - lol. Both are civilized, well-adjusted, tax-paying, constructive members of society, and neither of whom would advocate "beating" children. Sometimes we go too far in our ideology, like every child getting a First Place at Sports Days. I definitely don't agree with your previous post to this one. My mother spanked too much, but then, that was the generation she was raised in. We didn't take it personally - everyone we knew was getting spanked, and when we were due for one, we certainly knew why. None of us are violent or criminals or losers, so I think it's a case of 'much ado about nothing'. Different things work for different kids.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  3  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:13 pm
@Green Witch,
"Brute Force" is carrying it a little too far - same as 'beating'. Nonsense. It doesn't teach that the biggest bully wins - it teaches you to pay attention and obey your parents, or else.

And if you can't get your kids to listen without 'violent' ways (which is not spanking, in my mind), then you're a failure as a parent? Oh please! I had a healthy respect for my parents and the way they brought us up. They did spank more than I did, but perhaps they felt it was warranted.

I was fortunate - both my kids were eager to please and didn't get into any trouble. The only spankings they got were about safety issues (don't run into the traffic). And neither of them bear a grudge; in fact, I don't even think they remember them.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:19 pm
@Mame,
Quote:
The only spankings they got were about safety issues (don't run into the traffic). And neither of them bear a grudge; in fact, I don't even think they remember them.
Most of the spankings at my house where for like reasons....going outside of the blocks were they had permission to go, going inside a house without calling, not being home on time. I have always given my kids a lot of rope, but I must be able to locate them fast if I want to. These safety rules had to be followed religiously or else I would not have been able to let them do so much on their own...thus letting them learn how to take care of themselves and they racked up new life experiences.

Note: My kids were mostly before kids routinely had cell phones.....
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:26 pm
@Mame,
you see it your way, I see it mine. My dad spanked me and all it did was piss me off. Both my kids are well adjusted, doing well in school and they both work. Neither have a criminal record or any other signs of violent behavior. I found plain talking to my kids was almost always enough.
If Hawkeye wants to compare apples and oranges, why not pull up a graph that shows violent crime in the USA as compared to Sweden.
There are lots of reasons for rising crime but I'm not sure how spanking correlates as compared to, oh lets say, poverty, lack of education or jobs and so on. Pulling up graphs on rising crimes proves nothing but crime is rising, with the growing population it almost seems normal.. Dumb
This is a guy who wants to forgive the crimes of pedophiles and their enablers. He can cherry pick what ever bullshit graph he wants, but he and I will never see eye to eye on raising kids. I see them as kids, not potential toy things for what ever twisted games he wants to play. I feel sorry for his kids. I have no doubt he beat them and god knows what else. Please spare us the good father knows best routine. It makes me want to vomit.
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:33 pm
@Ceili,
I've often wondered if the same people that advocate spanking feel the same way about hitting a woman who just doesn't listen? Irony...
0 Replies
 
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:40 pm
@Ceili,
Can't come up with a good reason why anyone should do that in today's world. But, maybe a whack or two when toddlers sweep things off the coffee table. Putting them in their room works better.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:42 pm
There's an A2K anti-spanking lobby? Who knew? Do they have regular meetings? Do the members bring a covered dish? Are there dues to pay? So many questions . . .
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 02:49 pm
@Setanta,
It beats me.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 03:02 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
If Hawkeye wants to compare apples and oranges, why not pull up a graph that shows violent crime in the USA as compared to Sweden


You dont like to do research, do you...


Here you go:

See the top 10 League of Shame here, with Sweden # 4 with 1,123 violent crimes per year per 100,000 population. Canada is #6 with 935

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

The US however is below 500

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Violent_Crime_Rates_in_the_United_States.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Kinda blows the mind out doesn't it Ceili....I know how much you Canadians love to think of yourself as the peace loving North Americans, like to claim that you all are so much better than the cowboys of the USA.....
Mame
 
  3  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 03:04 pm
@Ceili,
Well, I'm only coming at this from my perspective. There are other things that my parents did that I didn't do. I didn't make them eat food they hated or eat everything on their plate (small stomachs); I didn't demand all A's, I didn't load them up with chores, and I didn't force them to babysit when they were 10.

As I said, I only spanked them a couple of times, and they were young and impressionable. Their clothes were on and it was a couple of swats with my hand and not done in anger. It was mainly to impress upon them that they have to listen. Apparently it was enough.

How many times did you tell your kids not to talk with their mouths full? Or chew with their mouths open? Or not to answer the door when you were in the bathroom? 1,000,000, I bet Smile They sometimes don't listen! You have to repeat, repeat, repeat! And when it comes to answering the door when they don't know who's on the other side, or running off to God knows where after school and not letting you know, or dashing out in to the street... it's a safety thing. You can tell them a million times, it still happens. A swat on the bum, combined with loss of privileges, goes a long way, quicker. You can talk until you're blue in the face, and some kids just don't listen.

I don't personally give a crap about Sweden's graphs vs USA or anybody else's. I've finished raising my kids and I'm happy with them. I'm a lot more lenient than my parents, but then... I only had 2 kids and they had 7 (in 8 yrs!), and things were different then. Also, I didn't repeat the things they did that I hated. I never put soap in my kids' mouths and I didn't use a hairbrush or wooden spoon on bare butts, etc, etc. There was a lot more interaction, debate, and family activities. Again, I only had 2, which I think makes a difference.



0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 03:41 pm
@Ragman,
Hehehehehehe . . . you're a very bad man . . .
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 04:41 pm
@Setanta,
... but I'm a good wizard.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Nov, 2011 04:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
And that graph shows what, americans spank, swedes don't and canadians do what? WTF do any of your stupid graphs prove about spanking? Perhaps those that committed the crimes got spanked, we'll never know because that wasn't part of the equation. Find me one that does, you stupid hypocrite. Poor little boys... It's ok to beat 'em and to rape em', but don't put a girl at the front of the class or it could **** 'em up. What is your point?
Here's a thought... Pick a point and stick to it! Either you are a child advocate or a ******* bully? Which is it?
 

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