Bad News for the A2K Anti-Spanking Lobby

@sozobe,

Quote:

Indulgent parents (also referred to as "permissive" or "nondirective") "are more responsive than they are demanding. They are nontraditional and lenient, do not require mature behavior, allow considerable self-regulation, and avoid confrontation" (Baumrind, 1991, p. 62). Indulgent parents may be further divided into two types: democratic parents, who, though lenient, are more conscientious, engaged, and committed to the child, and nondirective parents.

Authoritarian parents are highly demanding and directive, but not responsive. "They are obedience- and status-oriented, and expect their orders to be obeyed without explanation" (Baumrind, 1991, p. 62). These parents provide well-ordered and structured environments with clearly stated rules. Authoritarian parents can be divided into two types: nonauthoritarian-directive, who are directive, but not intrusive or autocratic in their use of power, and authoritarian-directive, who are highly intrusive.

Authoritative parents are both demanding and responsive. "They monitor and impart clear standards for their children’s conduct. They are assertive, but not intrusive and restrictive. Their disciplinary methods are supportive, rather than punitive. They want their children to be assertive as well as socially responsible, and self-regulated as well as cooperative" (Baumrind, 1991, p. 62).

Uninvolved parents are low in both responsiveness and demandingness. In extreme cases, this parenting style might encompass both rejecting–neglecting and neglectful parents, although most parents of this type fall within the normal range.

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@hawkeye10,

Clown

You only use the word correctly if such a lobby exists. You have not demonstrated that any such lobby exists. That there are people here who would rather not spank their children, or, like some witless savage, take a belt to them, is not evidence that they are dedicated to promoting an agenda.

You're the clown with the agenda. How's that working out for you? Does you wife stand by while you take a belt to her children?

1 Reply

@sozobe,

Quote:

How do you think the "collective" and "groupthink" takes root?

When someone is raised to unquestioningly obey authority

True..and I do negotiate and I do encourage my kids to speak their minds and to take me on...so the situation is not as cut and dried as I made it sound. I was speaking to when I have had enough, when I give the look that means " this is how it is going to be" . Ideally this does not happen all that often. And as I mentioned pages ago most of the spankings and the one belt whipping that took place in my house were about breaking safety rules, which were non-negotiable.

There is no cookbook to parenting, each parent and each kid is different, and a mix of parenting approaches is required. My position is that the willingness to spank is a critical tool in parenting, and that from what I see it appears that those who refuse to use it have a much more difficult time being good parents, though I admit that it can be done.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Does you wife stand by while you take a belt to her children?

She was deployed at the time, but she approved after the fact. The whipping happened after weeks of run ins with my boy, who was I think 9 at the time...he had been hanging out with this bad seed of a kid, and I had heard that this kid and my boy had been breaking windows in the neighborhood, though my kid insists that the other boy did the actual breaking, which is 90% likely to be true. He also had 3-4 times broken the safety rules over a few weeks time, and been grounded to his room several times for up to a week over the last two months . This one day he decided to ride on his bike 2 miles away with this bad seed kid up to the PX, way outside of the several blocks that he was supposed to be running in, and he came back three hours after check in time. He got whipped 4-5 times, and I dont regret a single one.

Only one other time did we have such trouble with him, which was about 5 years later, was when he was with a group on school campus, one of whom had a gun.....the boy was brought home by the cops. My wife took care of that one, but she used top notch military ass chewing instead of corporal punishment.

My boy is more afraid of my wife than he is of me. Wink

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@hawkeye10,

I suspect you're lying . . . but then, i didn't think i'd get an honest answer from you. Whether or not you are, if your children fear their mother, you've got a really sick dynamic in your family.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

if your children fear their mother, you've got a really sick dynamic in your family.

Fear of crossing the parents is healthy in young kids, and it goes away as they grow up and gain autonomy.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Assuming that you define "beat" as "spank" let me remind you that less than 25% of parents do not beat their children.

And that's 25% too many. I vow that I won't rest until that number is down to 0% -- or less!

hawkeye10 wrote:

I dont think that most parents have any need to sub contract out this part of parenting, we do it ourselves just fine.

As long as there is one unbeaten child out there, my mission is not complete.

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@joefromchicago,

I'll back you up on that Joe. And nobody ever laid a finger on me.

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@hawkeye10,

And if they get into some kind of trouble that you've warned 'em off of, and they're afraid of crossing you... to whom can they turn for help?

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Okay Mr. Nitpick.

Let's pretend she went blind for a short time.

Would you hit her if she stepped into the street?

U r very good. U shoud have been a lawyer!

David

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@hawkeye10,

In one post you admitted to hitting your children with a belt, and in another post you boast about being a child advocate. How do the two correlate?

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@MMarciano,

MMarciano wrote:

In one post you admitted to hitting your children with a belt,
and in another post you boast about being a child advocate. How do the two correlate?

He claims that lashing them with a belt is good for them.
He 'd like it for himself too, but he is BETTER than thay r;
not as stupid, in his own opinion.

David

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@MMarciano,

MMarciano wrote:

In one post you admitted to hitting your children with a belt, and in another post you boast about being a child advocate. How do the two correlate?

In the 49 kid years that I have parented (2 now over 18 yo and on 17 yo) I have used the belt once, and in that case using the belt was in the kid's best interests. To be a child advocate is to advocate for what is best for children, which is not necessarily what they want, nor necessarily that no pain come to them.

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@hawkeye10,

Your no child advocate, you're the exact opposite. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to hit a child with a belt, no matter what they've done!
You obviously weren't able to communicate in any other way with your kids
than to physically reprimand them. You're a pathetic and sorry excuse of a father!

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

Your no child advocate, you're the exact opposite. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to hit a child with a belt, no matter what they've done!
You obviously weren't able to communicate in any other way with your kids
than to physically reprimand them. You're a pathetic and sorry excuse of a father!

Results are what matters, it trumps your theories. I have one business major working at Microsoft several grades higher than most of her graduating year group peers, one who is on her way to being a doctor and who had the highest GPA in her HS class of about 400, and one who is a football star in HS and looking good for getting his spot at West Point. And they are all happy and non addicted.

They tell me often that when they look around at their peers that they understand how lucky they are to have good parents, parents who taught them right from wrong and then let them have as much freedom as possible, because so many of their friends who never had that are unhappy dependent fools.

What was it a study said last year?? 26 years old is the new 19 years old? Something like that.

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Clearly spanking a child is not the same as beating a child.

There are successful parents that have utilized spanking and turned out children who have grown into responsible and morally upright adults...without psychic scarring.

If you don't believe in spanking, fine, don't spank your kids.

Most mammals "spank" their young ones when they go too far. The "spanking" is a mild cuffing or light nip. The young one is not damaged, but learns.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Clearly spanking a child is not the same as beating a child.

Clearly there are a good many people who feel totally fine with redefining words in the attempt to paint in a bad light those people whom they dont like. I have at several turns made this observation about what the feminists have done to the word "rape".

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@hawkeye10,

MMarciano wrote:

In one post you admitted to hitting your children with a belt, and in another post you boast about being a child advocate. How do the two correlate?

hawkeye10 wrote:

In the 49 kid years that I have parented (2 now over 18 yo and on 17 yo) I have used the belt once, and in that case using the belt was in the kid's best interests. To be a child advocate is to advocate for what is best for children, which is not necessarily what they want, nor necessarily that no pain come to them.

It 'd be amusing if thay sought to improve U,
by applying the same philosophy and the same confidence in their own mental superiority over u.

It woud be fair n just, too.

David

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@hawkeye10,

What you described in hitting your son with a belt was not a spanking...even you didn't describe it that way.

Quote:

The whipping happened after weeks of run ins with my boy, who was I think 9 at the time...

You weren't teaching your son anything, except maybe to fear you--you were taking out your anger, and your frustration, on your child by intentionally inflicting severe pain on him with a belt. You wanted him to know you could really hurt him--physically--because, from your description, you were really punishing him for making you feel powerless by the way he had been acting. You were getting back at him. And, even in retrospect you feel justified in your actions.

Did that whipping teach him why it's wrong to break windows, or go beyond his several block radius, or come home late? What values of right or wrong did he learn from being whipped? What safety issues did he learn? Or was the whipping more about demonstrating your physical power and venting your anger than teaching your 9 year old any values, such as why you don't break windows or hang out with someone who does?

Was that whipping really for his benefit--or yours?

Quote:

America, where over 75% of parents spank, has a lower crime rate than does Sweden, where few kids have been spanked in 30 years. Coincidence? I think not.

But the U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The United States has 4% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.

Do you really believe there is a connection between adult criminal behavior and whether one was spanked, or physically disciplined as a child? Have you ever considered that spankings, or "whippings" may only teach a child to try to not get caught doing something wrong, and may impart little in the way of helping a child to understand why something is wrong, or to help them internalize values that keep them from doing wrong even when there is no immediate threat of punishment?

Our prisons are filled with people who were spanked as children, some quite severely--that didn't help them develop a conscience, or an internal sense of guilt about wrong doing, or values that weren't in conflict with those of the surrounding society. They may have learned that might makes right, or that it's all right to do whatever you can get away with doing, as long as you don't get caught and punished, but that's also the sort of thinking that lands someone in a prison cell when eventually they do get caught. Spanking does not instill morality.

The old, "Spare the rod, spoil the child" philosophy is not a formula for reducing adult criminal behabior.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Yes Firefly the parents should wait until the government and the police need to used force to control their out of control children.

Oh in Florida the school systems had a right to spank children let alone parents and the last figures I seen 11,000 or so student was so spank in schools in any given year.

A drop from over a 100,000 students twenty years ago.

Thank god for the drop in spankings as we all know that crime and misbehaviors are down in schools over the same period!

You can see that in the schools systems that no longer spank at all have the most peaceful schools...LOL

1 Reply

Bad News for the A2K Anti-Spanking Lobby

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