What's so wrong with being Gay?

@ehBeth,

I wont reply to your personal comments against me, and I would like for you to go and read more, and tell your "westernized" friends to do the same and then me and you can have a "respectful" discussion, but since you're talking without knowing _ (repeating what your claimed friends have told you)_ "something a parrot would do" I won't be able to have a logical argument with you.

NOTE: LOL @ It does not come from Islam.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Some of us have been here for several years during which time no Islamicist has shown the slightest ability or inclination to engage in "respectful discussion". Your difficulties are quite understandable, given that you have been conditioned by a culture which advocates child martyrdom, female circumcision, polygamy, male chauvinism, and holy war, in addition to medieval execution techniques.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Quote:

No it is not, you don't behead or stone a woman that has a strong argument for leaving her husband, she is to be stoned only if she committed adultery, and it also applies to the husband, i.e if he committed adultery he is to be stoned as well.
What you label as "wrong" and "barbaric" is to be seen as "just" and "fair" where I belong, now I believe that we should respect our differences, not to try to judge them in accordance to one's culture, I mean that we have our own point of views of what's right and wrong.

However, I can't see what does that got to do with the question being asked!!

Or, if she leaves with her children, and the husband "claims, adultry" which never occured... And, yes, that's a fact, it happens.

Why is my point of view, non-respectful, judgemental and yours fine to state? I find it barbaric and wrong... That's my priogrative.. What is amusing is the word "Judge".. are you not judging human beings that have a different preference, belief, thought pattern to you? We are all human, the evil is not in same sex desired humans, rather, those that don't give a rats about human life, other than their own agendas.. There is no right or wrong, in view points.. but there is in actions. "As long as you are not hurting anyone" comes to mind, then why should you be punished ?

"Love thy neighbour" also comes to mind.. Respectfully, your view point is not humane, everyone has a right to live on this Earth and not be judged and to be themselves, as long as they are not hurting anyone, who are we to judge their lifestyle? And, at the end of the day that is what it boils down to, their life.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

So, DG, based on everything you've said up until now, can I assume that you read all this in a book? Or did God come to you personally and tell you this?

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@FOUND SOUL,

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Or, if she leaves with her children, and the husband "claims, adultry" which never occured... And, yes, that's a fact, it happens.

Well, if it did happened, then the only thing the wife has to do is to "claim back" and swear by God that she didn't. Please refer to the "Shari'a" law before talking about such things. "AGAIN THAT'S NOT OUR ISSUE".

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Why is my point of view, non-respectful, judgemental and yours fine to state? I find it barbaric and wrong... That's my priogrative.

I agree "you have the right to define your opinions respectfully", and I'm sorry.

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are you not judging human beings that have a different preference, belief, thought pattern to you?

Yes we do judge when it affects our virtues and morals.

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the evil is not in same sex desired humans

That's where we disagree with each other because I believe to some point "It is".

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"As long as you are not hurting anyone" comes to mind, then why should you be punished ?

I hate to repeat my self, but again that's where we disagree, I believe it hurts. We are an oriental culture where "manhood", "honor", and faith are playing a large role in our everyday life, it's because of that our societies are still breathing.

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their life.

I would've really agreed to that if it wasn't for the fact that they are a part of a "group" or a "society" that condemns such behavior. It's the rule of the majority and acceptance of the largest part of the society that allows such "activities" to spread or not.

Thank you

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@RexDraconis111,

Although your way of asking was ironic, sarcastic, and to some point "line-crossing" but I will answer.

Yes I have read it from books that I revere and hold sacred.

Thank you.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Desert Gyrfalcon wrote:

It's wrong being Gay because it destroys communities and the fundamental idea of the "natural" relationship between men and women "husbands & wives" relation. It affects each one of us to let gay people wandering without being punished. as an Arab and a Muslim I think all homosexuals are to be beheaded or stoned to death as it's the will of God.

Hopefully, those who tolerate homosexuality will tolerate my humble opinion.

Hopefully, you'll tolerate my opinion that you are an asshole, sir.

The 'will of God' is not to be known by any mortal, and anyone who claims they do is lying to you for their own gain.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Your opinion is nothing of a worth since you're incapable of speaking like an adult "and I strongly believe that you're not". So no hopes of toleration from your part because simply I can't go down to your level.
thank you and feel free to keep talking to "yourself" because these are the last words that you read from me.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Desert Gyrfalcon wrote:

Your opinion is nothing of a worth since you're incapable of speaking like an adult "and I strongly believe that you're not".

Well, you're incorrect about that.

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So no hopes of toleration from your part because simply I can't go down to your level.

Why should I be tolerant to someone who advocates killing many of the people I know? People who are good and decent, loving folks who hurt nobody? It's the same attitude and behavior a Nazi would exhibit - it deserves no respect from me or anyone else.

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thank you and feel free to keep talking to "yourself" because these are the last words that you read from me.

What makes you think anyone gives a **** about what a bigot has to say?

The best thing about this discussion is that my side - the side that supports equality amongst those with different sexuality - is clearly winning, and your side is losing. All over the world! Even in Muslim countries, things are changing. In a few decades, everyone will be referring to people like you as bigoted assholes. Hope that feels nice!

Cycloptichorn

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Desert Gyrfalcon wrote:

We are an oriental culture where "manhood", "honor", and faith are playing a large role in our everyday life, it's because of that our societies are still breathing.

You may be living and working within an oriental culture, but that is not Islam. Islam is a religion, not a culture.

There are practicing members of the Muslim faith who no longer live in an oriental culture, but they are nonetheless Muslim. They have taken the faith with them to other countries and cultures. They practice their faith, not the old cultures.

I believe they are more honest practitioners of Islam, as they have had to return to the origins of the faith and are not dragging along old cultural traditions that no longer have meaning.

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I hope that there is no confusion between those who oppose homosexual "marriage" and those who favour the beheading and stoning of homosexuals.

There are plenty of married people who are not particularly pleased with the title and the plethora of impositions, humiliations and inhibitions it entails. Why can't homosexuals leave them alone in their domestic misery.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Let me start by saying that I have made this argument against Christianity, so I am not arguing solely against your faith.

The way I see it, the religious texts that so many people in this world hold sacred are written by man. Man is fallible and corruptible. Therefore, while these texts may be attempted guides to living a decent life, in my opinion they should not be looked at as some "divine law".

Since there is no concrete evidence to the contrary, I think that God has never come down to talk personally with anyone on this Earth. Now, I'll acknowledge the fact that I may be wrong, but I won't find out until I die, and even then that's only if there is an afterlife in the fist place. Having said that, any stories of prophets who claim to have spoken with God may as well be, in my opinion, fictional.

Thus leading me to my point:

The authors who wrote the religious texts that so many people hold sacred may have written that homosexuality is a sin. However, because the "sacred" texts were written by man, the listed sins are from the opinion of the authors, and not that of the deity(-ies) they believed in.

Again I could be wrong, but I won't know until I die.

As a side note, as far as "crossing the line" goes, in my opinion your stating that homosexuals should be stoned to death crossed my line, as well as probably everyone else on this thread who is gay or knows someone who is gay.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Quote:

I hate to repeat my self, but again that's where we disagree, I believe it hurts. We are an oriental culture where "manhood", "honor", and faith are playing a large role in our everyday life, it's because of that our societies are still breathing.

If you wish to be part of a culture, note the word, that has set down certain morals, that's your priogrative. But, do you believe everything you read, hear, see? Not many people do.. Killing an innocent person who has not hurt anyone, rather slept with someone else, or slept with the same sex, is to me, your "culture" taking power. The power being, in their mind, purety and non-purety dies. Do you think honestly that, it is possible to have this little haven of virgins and good girls and guys that are only men, taking the virgins and good girls and so, that piece of land that you all live on live happily ever after in this pure world? It will never, ever, happen.

Someone said, that God will not reveal himself to man, and I agree.. This is a Culture that is after power and as you believe in taking a wife that has to remain by your side and only your side for the rest of your life, or else you have the right to kill her.. What does that say about that Culture? Who gains? You, the man....

Yes, it's not part of this thread but yes it is, because it just keeps stemming out, branching out into and that goes for gays as well.

It's what you have been bought up like, but it's not what being a human is all about, humanity.... It has man made evil attached for self gain.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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If you wish to be part of a culture, note the word, that has set down certain morals, that's your priogrative.

It's a religious culture, where faith is the main factor in it. That's what I mean by culture.

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Killing an innocent person who has not hurt anyone, rather slept with someone else, or slept with the same sex, is to me, your "culture" taking power.

We differ in the definition of the word "innocent" since homosexuality is a crime that's sentenced by capital punishment in many of Islamic and Arab countries.

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Do you think honestly that, it is possible to have this little haven of virgins and good girls and guys that are only men, taking the virgins and good girls and so, that piece of land that you all live on live happily ever after in this pure world?

"Honestly", no.... but we have to do what we have to do, by keeping the blades sharp so that every one will think million times before actually conducting such a despicable behavior. It may shock you, but some people obey because they "believe", other people obey because of their fear of a muscular man whose field of work is either to chop heads off or directly shoot in heads, that's the "Executioner".

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This is a Culture that is after power and as you believe in taking a wife that has to remain by your side and only your side for the rest of your life, or else you have the right to kill her.. What does that say about that Culture? Who gains? You, the man....

Now allow me to explain here, If I have a wife, believe me, all she has to do is to ask me and I will be more than happy to divorce her so I can start a new life with another woman, thus she with another husband.

only a man who doesn't respect himself or has absolutely no idea of the word "dignity" would settle with having a woman that can't stand him. And by God who told you that any one has the right to kill his wife???? that's just WEIRD!!

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Now I think I can see what's going on here.

I belong to a religious society where faith and creed are essential to the society as a whole, unlike your irreligious societies, where religion is represented as a personal practice.
It's very clear to me that you people have a strong secular identity.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

And it's very clear to some of us that you're a bigoted zealot. It doesn't take any great epiphany to grasp the concept that homosexuality is no threat to any community or society. The fact that you wish death to an innocent individual who has hurt no one but only wishes to love a partner, and within a manner of their own choosing, is repugnant and demonstrates your lack of civility and humanity.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Wake up!

Your concept of "a religious society as a whole" is a myth. You are at each others throats as evidenced by Sunnis versus Shi-ites. Your "society as a whole" turns a blind eye to child exploitation, as evidenced by child beggars and pedlars pandering to pilgrims on the Hajj. It tolerates "honour killings", forced marriages, and ill treatment of servants. The reality of your "code of honour amongst men" in actuality involves intensive spying on each other and tribal suspicion. What a great "code" it must be if it cannot even control your belligerent fanatics !

You say you "know what's happening here" but the reality is that you are in denial about your own conditioning. There is no such thing as a "strong secular identity". In the West, the hegemony of society has rightly allowed the majority to see through the divisiveness and arbitrariness of religious dogma.

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@Ragman,

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The fact that you wish death to an innocent individual who has hurt no one but only wishes to love a partner, and within a manner of their own choosing, is repugnant and demonstrates your lack of civility and humanity.

One could argue on the basis of "civility" and "humanity" that homosexuality is in a complete contradiction to these terms. Is it civilized and humane for a man to share bed with another man?? the idea itself is completely repulsive and disgusting. We have "women", creatures that have private parts fit to our desires and needs, creatures that complete us, creatures that are loving, sensitive, compassionate, and able to give us happiness and peace, we "men" are not built that way, so we find in them the wives that make us truly feel "human".

Unlike man to man intercourse! GOD even saying it could make me throw up.

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Most decent people don’t have a problem with Gay people, it’s the close minded religious bigots that do, a dieing breed I might say.

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@Desert Gyrfalcon,

Care to explain how the thought of a 57 year old man having sex with a 9 year old girl does NOT want to make you throw up ? Would it make you feel more "human" provided you had "married" her when she was 6 ?

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Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

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What's so wrong with being Gay?

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