Two weeks into Occupy Wall Street protests, movement is at a crossroads

@Irishk,

It is a good read, and thanks for sharing it. I understand the jest of the article, but am not sure about the impact it has on the borrower's economy or the Federal Reserve Bank, and how that may benefit both parties. I had always thought that the stock market that's traded on the international markets affected each country's economy to the extent necessary.

I've been critical of monetary policies of Greenspan and Bernanke for many years, and have no confidence that they have taken the right road to economic stability - for us or other economies.

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@cicerone imposter,

Well, take what happened last week when the stock market zoomed up. The Federal Reserve Bank announces it's plan to provide 'liquidity support' for the global financial system (similar to what they did with that secret $7.7T going to American banks, only this time it's plunked into the ECB to help Europe). Nothing new here, it's fairly common to loan out money into the system and then withdraw it in a number of ways -- usually through their discount window.

We're broke, though, so all that 'new' money flooding the system to make it 'well' is pretty much created out of thin air. The mopping up operation is where it gets tricky. We could see increases in bank reserve requirements which would make business lending more difficult or we could see a massive rise in interest rates which could force an economy toward recession.

Or, I guess the Fed could choose to do nothing.

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@Builder,

Builder wrote:

Quote:
Did you guys see the Bloomberg report on the secret 7.7 trillion secret bailout?

I just read that the figure is actually around the 16 trillion mark, and the practice of no-interest lending is continuing.

That is the total amount of loans and fails to include dollars paid back
If a bank borrowed 1 billion overnight, then rolled that loan over the next night, then the next 8 nights. It would be counted as $10 billion in loans, even though the bank technically paid the money back and never had more than $1 billion outstanding at any time.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation#outer_page_1

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

innovation by bankers

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You mean that the banks aren't following the feds direction on how the money they gave interest rate free to the banks, and the feckless government is not responding like they should? Who gave those TARP money to the banks? The Feds?

The Federal government has no legal authority to set the interest rates on private loans between borrower and lender. The Fed uses it's bank loans as a core device to control the money supply and limit inflation. Currently, the Fed is recklessly trying to increase the money supply through low interest loans to banks as a way of stimulating business borrowing and nvestment. Unfortunately the rest of our idiot government is doing its best to suppress investment in profitable enterprises like the Alberta to Texas pipeline , preferring instead loans to money losing enterprises like Solyndra.

Companys aren't borrowing to invest in new projects because they can't reliably predict the future actions of the increasingly intrusive regulatory apparatus of our government, and because in many areas of the economy the government actively stands in the way of new investment, due to the intervention of environmentalists. The banks are reluctant to lend because they fear a financial collapse due to the government's reckless borrowing.

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@georgeob1,

I guess all those companies who give money to congress members and state legislators are just thrown in the trash cans. What a petty!

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I guess all those companies who give money to congress members and state legislators are just thrown in the trash cans. What a petty!

Not at all. It's a great game for the legislators. The farther they reach into regulating private commerce the greater is their power through law drafting and rule making to determine who succeeds & makes money and who fails. This expanded power makes the companies all the more willing to make campaign cointributions to buy influence to keep the legislators from screwing up their business. This expands the legislator's power, enabling them to write ever more intrusive regulations, etc, etc....

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@georgeob1,

What you stated was,

Quote:

Companys aren't borrowing to invest in new projects because they can't reliably predict the future actions of the increasingly intrusive regulatory apparatus of our government, and because in many areas of the economy the government actively stands in the way of new investment, due to the intervention of environmentalists. The banks are reluctant to lend because they fear a financial collapse due to the government's reckless borrowing.

There's a disconnect there between why companies are giving money to legislators, and all those regulations that's being applied to them by the government their feeding.

Why do they bother? What are the "paying" for?

Funny how some university studies show the influence of corporations on government.

http://www.polisci.ccsu.edu/trieb/InfluGov.html

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@cicerone imposter,

You missed the point.

Companies and Labor unions do all they can to influence government - for special favors and exemptions and to protect their businesses from the otherwise unforseen consequences of government action. Labor unions enjoy virtual monopolies on organized industries thanks to government rules and they invest heavily to protect them, and to organize government enpliyees directly (without all the bother associated with getting the hapless voters to vote for a union).

Most companies would like just to be left alone by government and make their contributions to keep it that way. Some companies that do a lot of business with the government (like GE) stay close to protect their interests. Mostly though companies worry about government interference with their operations through regulation. That's what keeps them close to Washington.

Labor Union contributions to political campaigns far exceed corporate ones.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Labor Union contributions to political campaigns far exceed corporate ones.

Don't suppose you have a reputable source for those figures? Do they include Superpacs and the expenditure on lobbyists?

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@hingehead,

Most labor union political spending is deceptively packaged as voter education and get out the vote campaigns and is therefore immune from reporting under campaign finance law. Yes their total contributionsd vastly exceed those of corporations.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Most labor union political spending is deceptively packaged

And corporate financing of political campaigns isn't? Your superpacs are freaking amazing and scary.

Having you assure me of the truth of something isn't reassuring - given your record on these boards.

If you are right I bet the unions are pissed that they are spending more money than the big end of town - and all the increases in income aren't going to them or their members - but instead to board members - who don't have a union. You really believe unions are more powerful than corporations? You need to watch that video about the crisis of capitalism a few pages back.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Yes their total contributionsd vastly exceed those of corporations.

And..... Your source for this is where?

long pause......

We seem to be still waiting for that source....

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When it comes to lobbying, unions don't even break the top 10.

Total for 2011 -
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $181,673,492

Breakout of the top corporations -
Pfizer Inc $10,740,000
Amgen Inc $7,310,000
Merck & Co $7,125,000
Eli Lilly & Co $6,865,000
Biotechnology Industry Organization $5,960,000
Novartis AG $5,259,948
Johnson & Johnson $4,876,000
Bayer AG $4,850,000

Total for LABOR for 2011
Labor $37,152,473

The top 5 drug manufacturers outspent the labor lobby.
The defense industry spent almost triple labor
The Health industry spent 10 times the amount labor did.
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2011&indexType=c

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I guess george must have been referring to those conservative labor groups when he said they outspent corporations..

http://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/

Considering more than 40% of outside groups don't disclose their donors, I wonder where george got the info he presented as "fact."

But then I'm a pedant for not accepting his word for the truthiness it is.

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Quote:

Occupy D.C.'s barn raising ends in razing
(United Press International, December 5, 2011)

When Occupy movement protesters built a barn-like structure near the White House, police moved in Sunday night and tore it down and made 31 arrests.

Police used lift equipment to reach some of the protesters perched on the structure's rafters, The New York Times reported. Others were persuaded to jump down onto an inflated cushion.

"We are stronger than your trucks and your horses and your riot gear and your orders," the protesters chanted as police went about their jobs.

A U.S. Park Police spokesman told the Times 15 people were arrested for crossing a police line and 16 for disobeying a lawful order after the structure was declared unsafe. One of the 31 also was charged with indecent exposure for urinating while atop the structure, the Times said.

Once the area was cleared of protesters about 8:30 p.m., it took authorities only about an hour to haul the structure away in pieces. Police returned to the protesters a flag they had flown from the roof.

The Times said the protesters' building project had appeared to be well-designed and sturdily constructed. Occupy D.C. issued a statement saying the project had been planned for a month.

"The modular structure was designed by professionals 'to code,'" the group's statement said. "It meets all health and safety requirements and is fully accessible. It is non-permanent, has no foundations and is not tethered to the ground."

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@wandeljw,

A friend of mine was arrested there last night. I was riding by on my bike when it all went down. Not as dramatic as any report I've seen.

From my friend:
"RT @unknown_vector This structure kind of proves you don't have to be destructive to escalate. #constructive #escalation"

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@failures art,

That's interesting. In our local news they mentioned that a busload of Chicagoans are traveling to DC to show solidarity.

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@wandeljw,

Lots of people are coming to DC. Along with Boston, it's one of the last major cities that's not been raided, and probably wont be unless something HUGE happens.

There is a special reason for this: All parks in the District are not managed by local municipalities--they are national parks. This means that the order would have to be a federal one to move in. That's a political move by the Obama admin, I don't think is coming.

That said it probably means that many people who have been kicked out of their cities may move to DC because of this special situation. Also, #OccupyDC is pretty active with marches and targets K street (right next to McPherson Square) and other fundraising diners in the area. They do all the stuff that people say they wish #occupy would do.

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Two weeks into Occupy Wall Street protests, movement is at a crossroads

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