47
   

Two weeks into Occupy Wall Street protests, movement is at a crossroads

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 07:08 am
@H2O MAN,
Do the left rule the world? because this seems to be a global movement!
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 08:47 am
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 11:44 am
@reasoning logic,
Dont you know that policeman can do anything they want to anybody. Except of course a politician or a rich man. Surfs like you and me dont count for much in the U.S..
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 11:46 am
@RABEL222,
It does seem that way at times.

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 12:11 pm
@reasoning logic,
Outstanding!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 12:45 pm
@H2O MAN,
Are you related to this man in any way?

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 01:45 pm
Quote:
A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/19/8884405-lobbying-firms-memo-spells-out-plan-to-undermine-occupy-wall-street
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 01:56 pm
@H2O MAN,
You did not see it all!

0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 02:29 pm
@parados,
So, they're going to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. Sure hope they're not planning on taking over parks, blocking traffic, and interfering with port facilities at Oakland.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 02:39 pm
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 06:12 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

So, they're going to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. Sure hope they're not planning on taking over parks, blocking traffic, and interfering with port facilities at Oakland.

Why do that?
They can simply put out paid disinformation and buy off politicians or threaten other politicians?

Money is such a wonderful thing. It's only those without the money that have to resort to taking over parks, blocking traffic and doing other things that the people with money consider illegal.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 09:01 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
So, they're going to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. Sure hope they're not planning on taking over parks, blocking traffic, and interfering with port facilities at Oakland.

Every 4th of July, Americans dedicate a national holiday to people who've done much worse than that. (Especially when it comes to port facilities.) But if the OWS people ever start tarring and feathering bankers, we can talk unruliness, promise.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 10:18 pm
NPR's Sal Gentile reports on the OWS clashes with New York police. It seems credible to me.

Quote:
Polls show that many Americans remain skeptical of the movement’s tactics, even if they agree with its goals.

There is, perhaps, reason for them to be skeptical. What I saw in Union Square, and what I saw as the protesters, thousands of them, pushed through police lines, spilling out onto 15th Street and briefly seizing Fifth Avenue, were two sides of the Occupy Wall Street movement. There were protesters who talked intelligently about important issues, even if their views could be considered “radical” by mainstream Americans. And then there were those who seemed intent on provoking violent clashes with the police, storming bank branches and other civilian buildings, climbing up onto phone booths and barricades, verbally harassing officers.

Full Report

One lesson I'm taking away from this is that this leaderless self-organizing hive thing is not going to last. It's just a fact of life that hooligans will try to cover behind peaceful demonstrators and take advantage of the TV cameras all around. If they aren't to discredit everybody else, someone within OWS needs to have the authority to distance their nonviolent majority from their thug minority.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 11:20 pm
Naturally, I knew there would be different understandings of the word "petition."
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 11:22 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
One lesson I'm taking away from this is that this leaderless self-organizing hive thing is not going to last. It's just a fact of life that hooligans will try to cover behind peaceful demonstrators and take advantage of the TV cameras all around. If they aren't to discredit everybody else, someone within OWS needs to have the authority to distance their nonviolent majority from their thug minority.

Ah but Thomas, there will always be such events in such spontaneously thrown-together organizations.

And there will always be "infiltrators" , hell bent on discrediting the credibility of such loose organizations.

That's the way that these things go. Sad but true.

Me, I think that the "occupy" movement would be best served by not appointing "leaders" as spokespeople. That would cause considerable unease & disenchantment in such a spontaneous movement.

I think a spontaneous movement like this has absolutely nothing to gain by becoming part of established politics. It is the corruption of established politics that is a huge part of their grievances. As if established politicians will take their concerns on board?

My feeling is, if this current version of protest does not last, then it will be replaced by other movements advocating similar ideals to the occupiers.
And all the ideas from such movements will eventually have to be taken into account by the establishment. Because these ideas will not go away unless there are significant improvements in the lives of so many ordinary people across the world.
-
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2011 12:21 am
@msolga,
This is what happened to the tea party movement. They let politicians take it over and elected a house that continues to give the rich what they want.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2011 05:22 am
This is a very enlightening video, it has allot of history in it!

0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2011 05:32 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

My feeling is, if this current version of protest does not last, then it will be replaced by other movements advocating similar ideals to the occupiers.
And all the ideas from such movements will eventually have to be taken into account by the establishment. Because these ideas will not go away unless there are significant improvements in the lives of so many ordinary people across the world.
-
I don't know. I recall a few years back some locals protesting the latest Iraq debacle every weekend. If the weather was nice. All I'm saying is it's gettin' awful cold out there...
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2011 08:22 am
Quote:
Why the Occupy Movement Will Fail
(Geoff Cutler, The Southern Pines Pilot, November 20, 2011)

It seems only fair that we will have an OWS occupation in the Southern Pines park on Dec. 10. Since there have been local tea party events, OWS events should be allowed as well.

If this movement represents 99 percent of the population, there should be something for all of us. As someone who considers himself "middle-class," and struggling every day through hard work to make ends meet and support a family, it's great to know there will be kindred spirits to commiserate with, and I look forward to raising my voice in solidarity against those ... those ... who am I mad at?

So far, based on what I've read and seen on television, the demonstrators don't hang with much. I hope that's not a problem and I won't be sneered at for short hair and a lack of body piercing.

I suppose I could forgo showering or brushing my teeth for a week before the big day. Maybe wear my holiest T-shirt and scissor up a pair of perfectly good khakis to try and fit in. But maybe none of this will be necessary.

We're told by the event's organizers that this group of protesters will be different from the mobs of law-breaking, unkempt squatters who have at long last exhausted the patience of the public and authorities from coast to coast. Instead, we'll see our neighbors and friends, people we go to church and play golf with.

Sounds fun. Sort of an OWS Lite perhaps.

It'll be just like summer Saturdays when we go down to the park in the morning, see our friends and buy fresh vegetables, organic meats and Adirondack chairs to support our local farmers and small businesses. I wonder if any of those folks will have time out of their day to come and protest with us.

Probably not. I hear work on a farm is never done.

I do wish there were some ground rules, though - maybe an instructional booklet on how to protest. It might outline things like dress codes, slogans, chanting, and in this case, what exactly I should be mad at.

For example, what should my sign say? I've had a couple of ideas, like: "I've tried everything and failed. It's must be rich people's fault!" Or how about this one: "I've worked all my life, but Wall Street makes more than I do, and that's not fair!" See why I need direction? Those slogans are lame.

The truth is, I don't think I'm a protester. Maybe I've never been mad enough. Or, maybe it's that I don't know how to "occupy" because I'm too occupied. My business is small, only a few employees. But if I spent my days occupying, wouldn't they lose their jobs?

Enough frivolity. Here's the problem with this OWS movement.

All can agree that there are serious problems to be dealt with, both on Wall Street and in government. The movement's strength resides here, because "Main Street" has been adversely affected both by the greed of the money handlers and the incompetence plus overspending of Washington and their inability to turn a terrible economy around.

But that's where the strength of the movement ends, because the methods employed are repellent to hard-working Americans, who recognize we have problems, but more importantly, that our system for accomplishing change is in the ballot box, not clogging our streets and our parks.

The OWS movement could take lessons from the tea party. When they gathered, they did so for a day or two, cleaned up the venues, and left. They went to town hall meetings and questioned their representatives. They bought billboard advertising, and in November 2010, they went and voted. They spoke freely, used our system, and they won big.

They are going to win again in 2012. People are looking at this OWS movement, and they don't like what they see. They might sympathize with the college graduate who can't find a job, but what they will remember on Election Day is the filth, the violence, the inconvenience caused to hard-working people, and the millions of wasted tax dollars for police control.

And they are going to equate it with President Obama's failure to fix the economy.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Nov, 2011 09:06 am
The movement is growing and will only become larger in the spring if cold weather slows it down.

Great music and photos!

0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

T'Pring is Dead - Discussion by Brandon9000
Another Calif. shooting spree: 4 dead - Discussion by Lustig Andrei
Before you criticize the media - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fatal Baloon Accident - Discussion by 33export
The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - Discussion by bobsal u1553115
Robin Williams is dead - Discussion by Butrflynet
Amanda Knox - Discussion by JTT
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 01/12/2025 at 01:18:03