Two weeks into Occupy Wall Street protests, movement is at a crossroads

@Cycloptichorn,

What do they mean then when they chant "We are the 99%" or when they invite someone to join them because "We're fighting for you!"

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

What do they mean then when they chant "We are the 99%" or when they invite someone to join them because "We're fighting for you!"

I would say that both of those phrases are in fact self-explanatory.

I'll take your response to instead be an admission that they never have actually claimed what you had said they did.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

You seem to have fallen down the rabbit hole yourself.

Do you mean to tell me that Occupy is not claiming to represent the interests of 99% of the American public, that I've just fashioned that notion out of thin air?

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

I've understood this to be true, maybe for decades now. I've no idea how prevalent the practice is, how much true, how much rumor.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You seem to have fallen down the rabbit hole yourself.

Do you mean to tell me that Occupy is not claiming to represent the interests of 99% of the American public, that I've just fashioned that notion out of thin air?

Well, that's not what you said that I took issue with, is it?

You said:

Quote:

Occupy contends that not only does it represent 99% of Americans, it consists of 99% of Americans.

This statement is clearly false. I have no doubt that they are aware that there are many amongst the 99% who regularly vote in the interests of the 1% over their own (we usually call these people 'Conservatives'), and that these people do not support what they are doing. I have never seen them contend that everyone who isn't in the 1% agrees with them - which seems to be what you were claiming.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

I read somewhere today where there was a compromise in some city re some plaza, re tents - that the tent people could use sleeping bags, per the city. My primary sympathies are with the protesters but those sympathies are limited.

I'm all mixed up on this in that I'm keen on city spaces and their full usage (including care of), and keen on ability to protest.

I think protest by ballot is good, but am interested re pros and cons of piazza rule. So, what, I am in a learning what I think mode.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Occupy contends that not only does it represent 99% of Americans, it consists of 99% of Americans.

Occupy isn't exclusively a series of events in the U.S.

~~~

Do you think that the individual events are all part of some organized group? that the statements are issued by some kind of head office?

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

I don't know how else to interpret the widely prevalent signs and chants of "We are the 99%"

Clearly they do not believe that literally 99% of the population is out there marching in the streets, but it is a futher example of a conceit being used as a marketing gimmick.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

but it is a further example of a conceit being used as a marketing gimmick.

In America?

Shocking!

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Occupy contends that not only does it represent 99% of Americans, it consists of 99% of Americans.

Occupy isn't exclusively a series of events in the U.S.

~~~

Do you think that the individual events are all part of some organized group? that the statements are issued by some kind of head office?

No it's not but this is where it originated and what news I have read and seen about the movement has been limited to its American version; so that's what I speak and write of.

I hope we're not running into nationalistic pique over America laying claim to Occupy. I'm happy to cede it to Canada or any other country. Smile

It is a loosely organized group which is very capable of making it known which slogans are preferred.

Clearly if there are bodies at each location known as the General Assembly and associated committes for things such as "food" and "comfort," then there is some level of organization.

Just as clearly, there is no head office.

If there was more organization around a cohesive message and a realistic political game plan than procuring mittens and setting time limitations on tribal drum fests the movement might actually amount to something.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Clearly they do not believe that literally 99% of the population is out there marching in the streets, but it is a futher example of a conceit being used as a marketing gimmick.

I think that's one of those things called a "metaphor." For instance, Herman Cain's campaign theme is "I am America," yet I'm fairly confident that he is not an entire nation. I shudder to think where I would find myself on the map of Herman Cain.

2 Replies

@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Clearly they do not believe that literally 99% of the population is out there marching in the streets, but it is a futher example of a conceit being used as a marketing gimmick.

I think that's one of those things called a "metaphor." For instance, Herman Cain's campaign theme is "I am America," yet I'm fairly confident that he is not an entire nation. I shudder to think where I would find myself on the map of Herman Cain.

I bet you know precisely where you'd land. Better bring a flashlight.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I bet you know precisely where you'd land. Better bring a flashlight.

Nah, I expect that you'd already be there, burning a copy of the constitution for light and warmth.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Occupy contends that not only does it represent 99% of Americans, it consists of 99% of Americans.

Clearly the latter is not true.

I believe the campaign is "I am the 99%" not "you are the 99%"

It's matter of composition. The group is made of those from that income level.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

That it represents 99% of Americans is a conceit, just as it was that the Moral Majority represented all moral Americans

To the former, I disagree. I think people there are representing themselves. I believe you're projecting.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The mere fact that the entirety of the population can be divided into two groups based on a specific income level, doesn't result in homogenization of the two groups...particularly when one of them is said to consist of 99% of the population.

The division isn't arbitrary though. The problem is that the political representation of the top 1% so overwhelms the voice of the others and this results in social preference and impunity.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The division can be made on the basis of age where one group below 104 years of age consists of 99% of the population, and the other, 104 and older, represents 1%.

Sure, and if the political system was rigged to unfairly cater along such a age line, I'd encourage such a message. It doesn't.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

While obviously the group of Americans under 104 have certain shared interests it would be ridiculous to suggest that an organization or loosely organize movement might represent the primary interests of all of them.

The same is true with Occupy.

Even if they didn't have shared interests, they deserve a place at the table; they deserve adequate representation. If such a fictional divide existed (unlike the very real one we deal with on economic divides), yes, the 99% of people under 104 would have reason to protest.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

By virue of the income criteria, I fall within the so called 99%, but this hardly means that my interests are 100% aligned with all of my fellow members.

So go to a GA and be heard. You keep saying they don't represent you, and I keep telling you that people representing themselves. If they represent you so poorly, go to a GA and tell them how much better you are represented by your elected politicians. It really doesn't matter about "them," but what you are willing to do. So what are you willing to do to better gain your representation? Or are you perfectly content with your representation and it's care to your interests?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It would be the height of arrogance to assert that indeed Occupy represents my interests, but I simply do not want to admit it because of some fanciful longing I have to be considered a billionaire.

I think you're struggling, yes. Call it arrogant if you wish. I think you're comfortable in an older political paradigm that has people divided against their own interests, but flatters their ego.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The mere fact that the 99% is as diverse as you suggest reinforces the reality that Occupy does not represent it.

Hardly. I'm not sure how you take that away. A diverse group will have a diverse message. The desire for uniformity is misplaced.

A
R
T

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Yes it does: Government, not billionaires.

Mayor Quan was largely cracking down on #Occupy do to pressure from wealthy donors. Now she fear the fallout from voters.

A shift from government interest from large money to its people. Fearing a loss of money, to fearing the electorate.

A
R
Think about that

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Occupy isn't exclusively a series of events in the U.S.

A
R
*Twinkle fingers up*

0 Replies

@failures art,

She'll flip back.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
but it is a further example of a conceit being used as a marketing gimmick.

In America?

Shocking!

Yeah, they should limit themselves to chants and messages that are easily forgettable. How dare they try and find a message that works.

A
R
T

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I hope we're not running into nationalistic pique over America laying claim to Occupy

nope

just pointing out another way you've misfired about the protest/ers

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

She'll flip back.

Possibly, but the people are still in the park. They aren't taking their queues from her--it's the other way. Hence the OPD's message to her. What is she doing?

A
R
T

1 Reply

Two weeks into Occupy Wall Street protests, movement is at a crossroads

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know