33
   

The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

 
 
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2011 08:01 pm
@wayne,
It is the morning of September 11 here (in Australia) & I take this opportunity to extend my sympathy to those in the US who lost innocent family members, loved ones & friends who were killed of deranged idealogues.
I sincerely sympathize with your loss & the impact it has had on your lives.

Just as keenly as I sympathize with the families of those in Aghanistan, who lost their loved ones as consequence of "Operation Enduring Freedom", which began on October 7, 2001 (an invasion of Iraq which has continued to this day), in response to 9/11. .....The stated intention of which was to dismantle Al-Qaeda & remove the Taliban from power.

.. just as keenly as I feel for the thousands of innocent Iraqi lives lost at the instigation of our deranged ideologues following the opportunistic Invasion of Iraq 2003.

... just as keenly as I feel for the many innocent people around the globe who have died, & who we don't even know about ... or been forced to leave their homes, or have become refugees & asylum seekers & endured god knows what untold misery as a result of this highly dubious "war on terror".

... just as keenly as I feel for those innocent people, just going about their daily lives, lost their lives as a result of "suicide bombers" in Iraq & Afghanistan & elsewhere ..

I recall, following the 9/11 attack, a European leader (whose name I have now forgotten, sorry) declared:
"We are all New Yorkers today", following the horror and grief which followed the attacks.
And we were.
The saddest thing, to me, is that that the united revulsion & sympathy of that moment was lost. And so quickly.
Instead, without missing a beat almost, 9/11 was used by deranged ideologues to continue the horror and suffering of thousands of innocent people, which has continued to this day.
And that is the tragedy.
Why don't we ever learn?





Builder
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2011 08:14 pm
@msolga,
Bravo MsOlga. Wasn't going to add anything here today out of respect.

Well said.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2011 08:24 pm
@Builder,
Thank you, Builder.
But if only we did learn.
It is the ordinary, innocent people, ordinary citizens who suffer, who endure the often horrific consequences of the actions of deranged ideologues.
And their agendas are so rarely ours.
Builder
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2011 08:31 pm
@msolga,
Christianity masquerading as capitalism and greed.

I've been against it for decades.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2011 08:34 pm
@Builder,
I didin't say that Mr. Rumsfeld took the blame for anything, that's your contention, so support it if you can. As for the transcript submitted to the Septermber 11th commission, that's public record, and you can go find it for yourself. If you don't want to believe me, help yourself, don't. Unless and until you can do better than a vague reference by CBS news to a transcript, there's no reason for me to accept your irresponsible remark to the effect that "Within hours, the decison to invade Iraq was stitched up."

Now, i was never remotely a supporter of the Bush administration, and i despised Rummy when he was one of Reagan's flunkys. The Project for a New American Century was calling for an invasion of Iraq as early as 1997, and Rummy, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle--a very large number of people who would later work in Bush's administration were founding membes of PNAC.

That doesn't authorize making wild accusations about a connection between September 11th and the decision to invade Iraq "within hours." Absent evidence on your part, better than a brief report from CBS news which does not provide a link for this mysterious transcript to which they refer, i see no reason to believe it.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2011 08:37 pm
@msolga,
Oops.
Correction needed.

Too late to change now, but obviously I meant "(an invasion of Afghanistan) which has continued to this day)
.. when I posted:

Quote:
Just as keenly as I sympathize with the families of those in Aghanistan, who lost their loved ones as consequence of "Operation Enduring Freedom", which began on October 7, 2001 (an invasion of Iraq which has continued to this day), in response to 9/11. .....The stated intention of which was to dismantle Al-Qaeda & remove the Taliban from power.
0 Replies
 
trying2learn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 02:38 am
What have we learned from this day? We learned how agencies didn't communicate with each other. We learned how people made decisions which could of cost them their jobs, yet they did what they felt was right. We learned how strong individuals are in facing terror and that those who try to defeat us, who hate us, will never win! We will protect our country, our rights, against evil. They can't take our spirit or what we stand for away from us.
trying2learn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 03:31 am


Yes we will remember always.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  8  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 08:14 am
@trying2learn,
There's a clear presumption here that "we" are "good" and "they" are "evil", so still plenty more to be learned.
manored
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 08:59 am
@Eorl,
Eorl wrote:

There's a clear presumption here that "we" are "good" and "they" are "evil", so still plenty more to be learned.
Exactly. Dividing the world in "good" and "evil" leads to war, and to suffering.

msolga wrote:

Thank you, Builder.
But if only we did learn.
It is the ordinary, innocent people, ordinary citizens who suffer, who endure the often horrific consequences of the actions of deranged ideologues.
And their agendas are so rarely ours.

Yet arent the ordinary citizens the arms that perform the will of these ideologies?
Brandon9000
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 09:08 am
@manored,
manored wrote:

To be honest, im sick and tired of how much importance has been given to this event in the last 10 years. the USA then went on to wage and unjustified war where a much, much greater number of civilians were killed. Not to mention the hundreds or thousands that die every day out of poverty or civil war in weaker countries.

Well, it may mean nothing to you, but it's not every day that thousands of civilians are murdered in one's cities. After this, the USA went on to wage a justified war. Few people in history have maintained that a country cannot strike back after being attacked, so you don't have much company there. As for the people killed in our entirely justifed war in Afghanistan, most were killed by Afhgans, not by the US.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 09:16 am
@manored,
Quote:
Yet arent the ordinary citizens the arms that perform the will of these ideologies?

Taking the example of Iraq .... I distinctly recall, manored, thousands upon thousands upon thousands of ordinary citizens, all over the planet, demonstrated their opposition to the (then) proposed Iraq invasion, but to no avail.
We believed the arguments for invasion were a lie.
Our fervent wish for our countries not to invade was overruled by the mad ideologue "leaders" whose will prevailed.
Or are you referring to the armed forces of the countries which invaded?
How do you think ordinary citizens could have influenced them?

0 Replies
 
roger
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 12:12 pm
@Eorl,
Eorl wrote:

There's a clear presumption here that "we" are "good" and "they" are "evil", so still plenty more to be learned.


Okay. Let someone attack and kill 3000 of your own people, then come back and tell us how good they are. I suspect you will be somewhat less confused.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 12:21 pm
At least today should be reserved for remembrance of people who died from the September 11, 2001 attacks. It would be kind if people waited a few days before resuming criticism of the United States.
manored
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 01:54 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, it may mean nothing to you, but it's not every day that thousands of civilians are murdered in one's cities. After this, the USA went on to wage a justified war. Few people in history have maintained that a country cannot strike back after being attacked, so you don't have much company there. As for the people killed in our entirely justifed war in Afghanistan, most were killed by Afhgans, not by the US.
If the war was justified the government wouldnt have lied and invented reasons for the invasion other than the terrorist attack. They knew that Afghanistan couldnt trully be accused.

msolga wrote:

Taking the example of Iraq .... I distinctly recall, manored, thousands upon thousands upon thousands of ordinary citizens, all over the planet, demonstrated their opposition to the (then) proposed Iraq invasion, but to no avail.
We believed the arguments for invasion were a lie.
Our fervent wish for our countries not to invade was overruled by the mad ideologue "leaders" whose will prevailed.
Or are you referring to the armed forces of the countries which invaded?
How do you think ordinary citizens could have influenced them?
If the government is starting wars even against the will of the majority of its population, then that is no longer a democracy. A revolution is due, then.

roger wrote:

Okay. Let someone attack and kill 3000 of your own people, then come back and tell us how good they are. I suspect you will be somewhat less confused.
The terrorists could use this very same argument in their defense =)

wandeljw wrote:

At least today should be reserved for remembrance of people who died from the September 11, 2001 attacks. It would be kind if people waited a few days before resuming criticism of the United States.
I dont think the dead really care, and honestly I have never been a supporter of minutes of silence and similar rituals.
Ticomaya
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 05:33 pm
@manored,
msolga wrote:
We believed the arguments for invasion were a lie.
You were wrong.

manored wrote:
roger wrote:
Okay. Let someone attack and kill 3000 of your own people, then come back and tell us how good they are. I suspect you will be somewhat less confused.
The terrorists could use this very same argument in their defense =)
And here you are ready to defend them.


manored wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
At least today should be reserved for remembrance of people who died from the September 11, 2001 attacks. It would be kind if people waited a few days before resuming criticism of the United States.
I dont think the dead really care, and honestly I have never been a supporter of minutes of silence and similar rituals.
Living Americans care ... you dumb ****.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 06:52 pm
@wandeljw,
Fair enough, wandel.
I will not comment any further until later on.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 06:56 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

And here you are ready to defend them.
I dont mind playing the devil's advocate when the situation calls for it.

Slaughter doesnt justify slaughter.

Ticomaya wrote:

Living Americans care ... you dumb ****.
Its too much to ask for people to make several days of silence everywhere, even in frigging internet forums, because its the 10th anniversary of the death of someone you loved.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 07:00 pm
@manored,
manored wrote:
Its too much to ask for people to make several days of silence everywhere, even in frigging internet forums, because its the 10th anniversary of the death of someone you loved.

And in your case, you clearly couldn't give a **** that so many Americans died 10 years ago.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2011 07:01 pm
@manored,
Quote:
Its too much to ask for people to make several days of silence everywhere, even in frigging internet forums, because its the 10th anniversary of the death of someone you loved.


And yet you have been incapable of controlling the spew vomited from your nasty guts.

Good Lord but you are a hyporcite, a cretin, and a very nasty piece of work.
 

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