The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

That's a bit unfair Finn. I can't recall anything JTT has said that is all that wide of the mark.

My issue with what JTT says is how anything else can be expected.

Finn thinks we're all about to turn to Mecca, and I'm not talking bingo. I'd take what he says with an extremely large pinch of salt, (about enough to defrost the M25.)

He was a gambler alright, but his personal streak of luck had to run out sooner or later. That he lastest as long as he did is pretty remarkable.

It's a bit ironic that in a region that has become known for fanatical suicide bombers the way the American West became known for cowboys, so many of the despots there gained and maintained their power not through the strength of zealots willing to give up their lives for them, but by their own unflinching willingness to kill anyone (often times by their own hands) and the reliability of their opponents quite natural fear of being killed.

I wonder just how rare the suicide bomber as a commodity actually is. There's seems to be an endless supply of them but by no means a glut.

"Control" of Iraqi oil resources is overstating the reality and the goal. The US exerts a significant "influence" over these resources and that is a good thing for US interests and allies, but its not our oil to do with as we please.

Bases in the region and warnings to Saudi Arabia and other countries as well were part of the longer term strategic plan to establish a beachfront in the region. Whether it was intended to be a beachfront for democracy, western capitalism, secularism or American imperialism is not unimportant, although personal perspective plays a big role, but it was a reason for the invasion and could have and should have been communicated more clearly and forcfully by the US government --- with the emphasis being on democracy, of course.

A lot of countries do have WMDs and the US probably the most, but with an exception for the far trailing secondary concern of proliferation, the questions concerning a given nation's stash, that we or anyone else are concerned about, are how they will be used and upon whom?

You have your opinonof JTT and I have mine.

I never said or wrote I will or would be a Quantum observer. I started this thread to honor those innocent victims that day. Don't piss me off..

There's nothing to get pissed of about.

My joke though isn't worth the effort to explain though.

I appreciate why you started this thread and in the course of it you achieved your goal.

Not everyone shares our opinion that it is worthwhile for the nation to take some time every year to remember and honor the people who lost their lives on 9/11/01, but it is the rare exception that believes the victims are not worthy of rememberance or that the event was not tragic.

Spendius didn't express his opinion regarding me, Finn. How like you to avoid the topic he actually addressed. This is what he said, as if you need to be reminded;

I can't recall anything JTT has said that is all that wide of the mark.

It's nice and warm closeted in your little hole, isn't it? Just where a guy like you, so afraid to face the tough issues, should be.

I don't get jokes
GWB will be the worst president, I doubt it.

I'll try and remember that.

That's alright, Finn can't tell 'em.

Actually you and Tico both seemingly misunderstood my post - I was addressing your assertion that Bush never said Saddam was involved in 911, agreeing with you in fact. Tico replied to my conditional agreement with you. I was being, what's the word, whimsical, because Tico's addition made no difference to my response to you. Particularly as the declaration of the reasons for the war was 'after the fact justification' for a course of action already decided on by the administration (and a goal before 911 happened).

I note that you didn't respond to my tacit question on why Bush did nothing to dissuade the population from believing that Saddam was involved in 911 - even though he clearly knew he wasn't.

Just wanted to let you know that I have, on loan, the book Pres. Bush wrote. I don't know if he wrote anything in it about 9/11. When I read it, and if he wrote his thoughts about that day, I will post it.

Perhaps it might be more instruction if you gave your ideas, T2L, instead of posting stuff from a man who is known to be a serial liar, not to mention a war criminal of horrendous proportion.

Perhaps the greatest lie of them all.

My ideas? I never believed that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11 other then harbor terrorists. That ruler violated the UN sanctions hmm 17 times?? He was given an option which he didn't take so I blame him for any innocent people that were killed.

A known serial liar? A war criminal? Maybe President Bush wasn't well spoken, yet when he addressed the nation, he told people what he would do and he did it.

Bin Laden and Saddam had their own objectives, maybe similar, yet together. What I mean by that is they hated the United States. It is possible to hate a govt. and not the people.

I am disgusted by others hatred towards people that live in a country.

Is that a bad thing?




No, he wasn't given any option. The US is not god. It is a war crime to launch a war of aggression upon a sovereign nation. It is the dictionary definition of terrorism, as well as the definition that the US hypocritically uses to define the actions of others, for one nation to attempt to effect a change in government of another nation.

But the US has been doing that for over a century. The US has been engaging in terrorist acts for well over a century.



That's correct. He told the American people that he was going to commit war crimes and the vast majority either applauded those actions or were cowed into silence.

A large number of brave and honest people did stand up to this Hitler in short pants.



Of course they did, just as you do, just as we all do. But why you attempt to once again conflate OBL and Saddam?



Is it not hatred, extreme hatred "towards people that live in a country" to allow your governments to bomb the **** out of innocent people, to napalm towns and villages, to spread WMDs all over their lands, to steal the very bread off the table of starving people simply to advance the bottom line of US businesses?

Yes, we are evil people who want to steal from others. Happy now........

As far as I am concerned, thank you France who said you would veto our intention to invade Iraq. We don't need your permission.

Not at all happy, T2L, for at least two reasons. First, you, collectively, are not evil people.

Second, this is simply an excuse to avoid discussing what IS the real evil. This is another of those lame memes, "the US is the great Satan"; "you hate America"; "yeah but what about all the good the US does"; ... .

The evil is the war crimes and unremitting terrorism that has been an integral part of US foreign policy for over a century. The evil is the illegal invasions that have caused immense suffering for the peoples of two countries, people who have been play toys for the US's political machinations for the last 30 or 40 years.

You say your concern extends to all the people of all countries. Why are so silent about specifically mentioning the very countries that the war criminals of the Bush administration have destroyed?

Why are you silent instead of asking that these war criminals be held to account for their evil?

because I don't think that