The horror of Sept. 11th, 2001

Looks like maybe one of "my lot". :-/

That sums you up. Why would you want this?


When you can have this.

Wow, is that your home, izzy? (the top one, I mean)
Very nice!

Yes it is, that's the bargate, the mediaeval gate to the old city, about 1/10 of the modern city. The second picture is where Tico decided to spend his time whilst over here.

You have a "lot"?

Personally, i only have a few.

I have too much, would you like me to give you more?

Well I had some hopes, but no real expectations.

I feel fine. It's an extraordinarily beautiful, clear day in San Francisco. I'm relaxing over my morning coffee (and reading the depressing news in the Wall Street Journal); answering various e-mails; getting ready to go for a workout at the gym; and after that a lunch with some friends in North Beach.

I wasn't trying to pick a fight at all - instead to settle one on tolerable and honest terms. I identified the behavior flaw in question accurately as "not the worst in the world, but one that can reduce your ability to deal with all the others". I think that is both temperate and truthful.

Can you believe that Gob1 would try to advance a line like that. Do you think that gunga or h2oman could borrow that, Gob?

Elitist!

Not that there's anything wrong with it...

Harks back to Builder's reference to Setanta's people.

I'm the elitist? Uxbridge was quite a nice place before you decided to put your tag everywhere.

Many patriot types call the criticism from compatriots treasonous and the criticism from foreigners meddlesome.

The common theme is to reject the criticism on grounds other than that on which it is being made. Instead of addressing the criticism directly, it's merely characterized as being untoward.

This is why I dislike patriotism, it's emotion that is not given to reason. I don't see anyone in this thread addressing the criticism of America by any means other than to merely vilify those criticizing.

There are plenty of threads where people can and are criticizing America. The purpose of this thread was respect and sympathy for the victims of 09-11. Criticizing America on this particular thread is inappropriate.

You've certainly got the number one rule of effective propaganda nailed, JW.

REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT, then REPEAT some more.

And for the deliverer of that propaganda, never, ever, under any circumstances, actually address the issues.

Maybe Goebbels was an uncle or a maternal grandfather?

You are presuming things you don't really know about the motives of others. Your view of patriotism or "patriot types" , as you term some people, are your own and are nothing that concerns or interests me.

The fact that someone does or says something I find offensive, in no way imposes on me the obligation to address the content of what they did or said. I believe most people feel that way too.

The only problem I have with your post is the last sentence, which is, to me, naive in the extreme, not to mention uninformed.

As to some posters' position that this is a reverence thread and should therefore only be a reverence thread, I say nuts to that. People should say what they want, on this and any other thread. Other opinions shouldn't detract from what TTL/TTH wants to say - and discussion is good for the soul.

And I say to TTL/TTH, look at what's going on in the world around you at this very minute... take a look at world history. Terrorist activity has been going on a long time... the fact it has finally happened on US soil is really, IMO, the fault of the US government.

I don't think anyone (other than those culpable) would say those 3,000 innocent people deserved it, but people in other countries where the US meddled didn't deserve it, either. Finally, someone fought back. Moral of the story: Eventually your actions will come back and bite you in the nose. It's no wonder that Norway, Finland, Sweden, Iceland, Lithuania, Belgium ], Czech Republic (just to name a few) are not being attacked, is it?

So, for me, 9-11 is a huge wake up call to the US government to keep their nose in their own affairs. And of course, that's too simplistic and naive a position as well, but in a nutshell, that's my take.

Simple, possibly, but nevertheless, the truth; definitely not 'simplistic', Mame, and certainly not at all naive.