Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

voiceindarkness is there

You seem to have me misguided altogether, and I am starting to wonder if it is intentional or not......

And what about that above bold post is not an insult toward me???

1. What makes you think you know anything about me whatsoever??

2. Why do you believe in your certainty, that you know or understand me better than I know myself??

3. What makes you so certain, that you can't be wrong??

4. What makes you believe in your certainty that you can't or will not be able to learn anything from we whatsoever??

5. What makes you believe in your certainty that I ma insulting you when I have pointed out 3 times it is opinions, nothing more, nothing less...but there not to be taken as insults...

6. What makes you so certain that me posting in bold posts mean I am an angry person??

etc....

I am not a stickler like this but it seems to me, that your the one who came at me with the opiniative, certain, undesired to challenge, except anything I say...That has caused this debate to even go down this path and continue....You imply I say or have said things, even when it is directly pointed out this is not the manner in which I wish to portray...I have listen to you, you told me you have nothing to listen to me about....I have corrected myself, you already seem to think your versions of things in near perfect...because your certain about yourself, and your views....you tell me I am wrong in my views, I have said I can't say yours are wrong...Your saying in so many words I do not know God, But I have said it is possible we both do, and have different ways....You have told me I am preaching to convert, and that is my goal, I have directly told you it is not....You told me I should be eager to learn, which I have stated I am, you, in your certainty, seem to think you can't learn anything from another who is saved or embraces (Probably) the same God you do...with which you reject....I ave given you pointers about this thread, you rejected it, and told me that in your certainty, I am the problem here....

So, can you see from the above why it seems to me, that Your the one with the problem, and wished to cause problems and not me....When you drop the I am certain I can't be wrong....you will indeed see even more enlightenment than you already claim your certain you have, and have way more than I do at that....

You also claimed that their is nothing to be gained from listing to me...If that is the case why do you continue to talk to me? Unless there are uncertainties (or insecurities as you have said) that you have, and they are being answered by us doing this back and forth....and if Not, then it seems to me, your just arguing with me to say you know the most, and are purposely arguing with me, and acting like an asshole....( I apologize, But I am irritated with that continuing of slams left and right, for no better purpose) (and I find it hard to believe if I did that to you, you would not get upset after numerous times of it happening, and it being pointed out) For if I am not saying things that are important, or valid, than please block me, so that I do not have to read you slam me left and right anymore....and If you would like to I will block you....Have a great day! (and this is not sarcastic)

So unless your trying to be exceedingly cunning, and are really a hateful person, with your own agenda's...Please follow you path of guidance, and mercy, acceptance etc....and leave me alone....

If you would like me to be perfectly honest with you...though I can perceive you have already rejected it in your convictions as to your certainty....

I do not believe based on your mannerisms, and certainty of yourself, that you probably know the One living God...at least the way you portray yourself, would suggest otherwise...One true character of the One Living God is being humble, In which case all you have done in conjunction to our discussions is make boastful prides about yourself, while trying over and over again to tear me down...You can sugar coat you mission as "guidance" if you would like to...But from what I see your not a self-honest, or self-aware person outside of your certainties...and that is a crime just as unholy as one trying to force, or preaching to convert....(with which in any case, I am not trying to do these things)

Having an overbearing, opinionaided view, that can't be shaken or shown that to you there are others ways of accomplishing what you say you do...Shows no enlightenment at all to me...

If all of your posts were merely tests for me, that I will gladly recant everything I have stated toward you, If you being truthful...than my opinions still stand, and that is my call....

Nope! not in the least to me, just curious as to what you thought about...I value your perspectives....

What does this mean?? So, your saying that you, as the Messiah, are saying that Heaven is not an actual destination??

I will reply to your post tomorrow Chights....and to you logic, since I value you as a friend though we differ, I will watch the video's....Have a great day or night the both of you!!

Only those that "may" listen to you, do you add all the Emoticons that you can fathom.

Those that challenge you, over preaching to gain and convert, which is my take, get it all turned back onto them:)

No, I do not know you, no you do not know me, but my opinions over why you started this thread you have agreed with.

The rest is not relevant.. You are trying to convert people to believe "you" and how you see everything... Something I have never done, nor here, rather explain to you that I do not need your guidance, or preaching... Again to which you have stated, I do not therefore need to be on this Thread.

Therefore my accessment is correct...

Talk about your experiences and where you have come to your conclusions and I will gladly talk back.

When I see someone trying to en-lighten through just what they believe as apposed to experiences, other people's experiences, discuss... I do not like it, simply put... As, I see it not as "helping" someone, rather trying to convert.

Having said that. I can see some other merits.. Where, as stated, people as a result (1) only to date, has opened his eyes to "himself" in finding "himself" not God, but himself.. .For that I congratulate you for that is what life is about.. Helping people find their way and in that, make their "own" decisions... about faith.

See where I am coming from?

I hope so..

My contents was to point out and again I will... For all that I have seen, experienced in life, including almost death, and including helping alot of people "see" themselves, I have never preached to convert.

You call that, bad manners, overbearing, opinionated yet you can not see that "oh" and from their some of those people may find faith? Therefore find God? And, instead of 1 person it's been many?

See where I am coming from.

One thing God also does not do is Judge... I am not juding you, I am guiding you, but you don't like that... You however, are Judging me...

And, wish for me to go so you can do your work.

Read that all very carefully...

There are flaws in your own character in ways in which "all" people that believe in God, see him.. as Gentle (said that before) you seem to twist my words alot.

Once you watch the video from Pat that I posted it may offer some insight on this. If you read the bible (specifically Luke 17: 20-21) it says: 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” This implies that Jesus says that heaven is not an actual place that we go to, but rather it is a state of mind or as voice puts it "a reality of the mind".

I disagree, it is the Spirit, who dwells within, that directs me to show admiration, or deception back from where it came from...whatever people put out to the Spirit, is how the Spirit will respond to them....

And the same then toward you, with your sugar-coated views as to guidance over preaching....

And then my opinions are that you have not read this thread in entirety, and have read the evolution of everyone, including myself....

Why is it not relevant??

No that's not exactly how I am trying to do things, at all....

I disagree, saying to someone they have more enlightenment than another could fathom...saying your certain you can't be wrong...certain there is nothing you can learn from another who is saved...Is preaching....and it is just as bad, if not worse...Because your sugar-coating your preaching to deny it happens...and blacklisting people because the differences they bring from a found perspective challenges your certainty....That to me, says it is all about you, and your enlightened experiences, and everyone else's must be wrong...

If your certain you are more enlightened than I can fathom, and that I am the problem here because in your certainty, my way is wrong....and your saying you do not believe I know God, than your not right about your acessment at all...Even when I point it out to you....

I do not need to do that, do I?? Why, to appease you?? I am certain of things I saw, and experienced, but it is not appropriate (to me) to boast about these experiences, when others have not had them happen to them....Or in my enlightenment, there is no way for them to validate, accept them as truthful...You should already know this since your enlightenment is above mine....

So, Why should I, change? Based on what you "believe" in your certainty, is the only way for people to be enlightened?

If that is how you feel, than I say thanks to make the situation better, but that is not directly how I feel...again I will say, and for you to believe that I am wrong because you have your certainties....Does not mean there is only one acceptable way to finding God....

Yes! Do you see where I am coming from?

I hope you see my view as well!

And I do not dismiss what happened, you experienced....but that does not mean you can count out mine either....and because I do not strictly go down your certain path, does not mean mine is anymore/less valid...it is just a different way...with the same objective in the end....

I would not wish to embrace a God, If someone was portraying themselves, in bad taste, overbearing ways etc...This is where you seem to make it about you, and not about helping people find their ways, and are guilty of the exact same, with which you claim I am wrong for doing....What does it matter if one found God yet, and you have saved many?? Why do you think your way is better because of that??? why are you keeping score??? what is the importance?? Do you realize I have only been on this website 8 months?? etc...

Yes, do you see me?

I disagree, you can call it guidance if you would like too, but based on your actions and mannerisms here, you are judging me, and have been since you came here....And I may have judged you, but that was not the direct action I was trying to do..(so if I did, I apologize) but it was done to show you, your doing the same things with which you say your certain I am wrong for doing....Example: You said I preach to convert, and it is wrong....then, you were telling me your more enlightened than I could possibly imagine, has no beneficial purpose whatsoever, only to boast and gloat...and that is not guidance, but it is preaching....and shows no enlightenment at all whatsoever, People who are enlightened do not need to proclaim how much or little they are, they just are, and are filled with God in them....The only thing your trying to do with a post like that, is to get me to forcefully accept your certain path....with which will never happen!

No, you do not have to go, you can go or stay whatever you wish...Like I said before and will say again....But if your mission is to tear me down...Because in your certainty, you do not recognize or acknowledge my ways....than I wish for you and I to separate, If you wish to stay, then stay...I will avoid you, and if you Go, then I will stay bit I will avoid you... Because going back and forth has no beneficial purpose whatsoever, and if I have nothing valid to accept, than this is indeed a waste of our time....If your interested in my experiences, in order as to my views of guidance....than propose it in a p.m. and I will explain it to you...but do not slam me left and right because you feel certain that tearing me, and my mission down is a good thing....

I have...Please respond likewise, to me...

I disagree, It seems your the one who had a bone to pick with me....I did not go searching to call you out....You did that to me, and when I took accountability for it, you still rejected it...When it was and is directly pointed out to you that the message is not to be taken as forcing people you seem to try to find ways as to how I am lying about it, or being untruthful etc...because you do not believe me....So you are the one who is putting words in my mouth, and trying to portray something I am not....When I asked you questions pertaining to those things, you tried to reject it, and show how I was lying about it etc....and I ask you, If I wanted to insult you, could I not have done it outright to you? or Anyone else out there>?

I have taken accountability many times for what you have said directly to me...I am interested if you think that there is anything you wished you had done, or said differently??

If you do, then I will accept it, If you do not, than I believe in your certainty, your unaware of certain things, even when they are pointed out to you....But I will not continue to harp about this....People are eager to hear....as I am eager to listen to them....and that is what I will continue to do here...

I will directly test you on this....If I was to tell you in my visions and dreams at night, with my prophetic gift I have, I have been purged, chopped up, tormented by the Devil, in direct conjunction to freeing thousands of souls...Would you believe me??? Or do you believe in your certain ways that I am mistaken, and it did not ever happen??

I don't discredit a lot of what this man proclaims...there are indeed many who do not understand the message of Jesus Christ, whether they claim to believe or not in him....But I would say that the majority of Christians have it right apposed to wrong....In directly accepting what Jesus Christ said himself...

about embracing a God, being a savior, Being God in the flesh, inheritance in the Kingdom etc....

Most of them seem to incorperate this in their lives, and are not driven after money...Are there people who exploit Jesus to do this?? Yes...but that does not mean that everyone of them are part of this regime to do these actions....And when he specifically talks about knowing the kingdom within....I take it he is saying, look within your heart, you already know if you know me, and my father, and are going to be in paradise with me...I don't think at all he is saying...That the place Heaven in not an actual destination....And that all he was was a mortal man who came to enlighten people, but rather he is God in the Flesh, and there actually is a rising of the soul to a place that exists in our current world...Think of it like a hologram...a 2-d picture, with 3-d parameters...etc....So is the Kingdom of God....

It is a place that exists on the Earth, but can not be seen till after the rising of death...Where the body does not go, but the soul lives on....

So your body may remain in the ground forever....But your soul, or (your essence etc...) rises and remains in the presence of God himself forever....Whether you wish to call that a reality of mind etc...I am not sure...All that I know from what I know and have experienced is that it will seem as though your actually in a place called Heaven, and doing, acting, being like a human being would/could and can be....but the body is not ness. for this to happen or be achieved....but by the power of God, your very soul can do the things that will allow you to remain with God forever, and do the things with which you want to do...So that your are fulfilled, and are eternally happy forever....

When she says those things about Martin Luther King...that he did not understand the Bible...Than I have one question in response to her position...What is the importance of him embracing Jesus Christ as God then, in the end?? And why did He make it his life mission to spread the words of Jesus Christ, If the Bible in not understandable??

If Christianity, Sprung up, and was created out of The Bible, because the Torah can not be translated...then why would God allow Christians, and the Christian Bible to exist?? In conjunction to the Torah, and the God of Old??

And this is the thing I do not understand...maybe an atheist can point this out for me...Why do people, like her, or other Atheists feel it is their mission to try to point out things that do not incorperate in their views>?? Or in life in general?? In other words why does she feel in her convictions that explaining this kind of position is a good thing at all? unless there is reasons why she herself, and other atheists out there like her who feel there is validity on God...and directly to her, the Torah??? If there is no truth in God, and in the Torah, as No God exists...than all of these misunderstandings would still not be seen in the world...Unless there is ultimatly still truth in embracing a God....And I would say whether she is aware of it or not, she has just as many demons as the next in her head....And every time she does something that goes directly against her conscience....It is a demon in her head....And she is trying to discredit the fact that it exists....

I do not agree with all of what the lady says.
I found it interesting that she seems to think to herself that she truly understands how the bible should be interpreted and to me she seems to be in the same category as you.

I find it interesting that she thinks that everyone is psychotic because they do not see it like she does.

Not trying to put her or you down but you both speak about things that we can not know with certainty but you two seem to think you understand the bible in an absolute way.

Because I do understand things that pertain to God in an absolute way....There is no physical way I can propose or support this to validate it for you....the only thing I can say is if people took the leap of faith it requires to embrace a God, I know for certain these people's eyes would be open to things Similarly to me, that can not nor will ever be able to be validated with certainty for another...But it would be absolute, in their views, and eyes, and minds...

If your not willing to take the smallest leaps of faith, How could you expect to understand or conscientiously aware of things of greater magnitude??

It is like saying, when your a child, God if you exist let me be able to read...But everyone knows that you must first learn and understand a language to be able to read and write....Once this is achieved, you are made aware of all the things that are not validatable to or for another, but it is certainty for you/and your conjunction to your relationship with God....

It seems to me that Pat got it right in the video when he says everyone has their own God and this God is made in their own image of what they think god should be.

That could be 100% correct right now, But that doesn't mean that what this image we create of him, is not actually him creating this image....And when were risen we will probably see the image we chose to accept, so that it validates it for us....And when were in Heaven, we will see the true likeness of the Heavenly Father...Which hasn't been revealed to anyone but Christ, and ones in Heaven...

So like I said before to someone else, If you wished to portray God as a Spaghetti Monster in your head, there is no reason to me why Jesus Christ, wouldn't test you on this, and reveal himself as that and say this is who you thought I was, Now you know it is me, Do you wish to see what the Truth God of Israel looks like?? Come with me....The over all conception Of Jesus is not the ut most importance, but that his message is...If your following him, than it makes no difference how you relate to him (physically)....

Think about it, If Jesus Christ is real, and the Devil is real....If the Devil said let me look like you, and you like me....DO you believe the Holy ones who follow Christ, would not be able to dicern rather quickly, that what looks like the Devil is actually Jesus, and what Looks like Jesus is actually the Devil???

This goes along the lines of the story of Job....Where the Devil, and God were talking back and forth...and also along the lines of How the Devil tempted Christ 3 times before he was crucified...

God is the conscience within you...his appearance in not at all the focal point, but his messages were/are....

Are you certain that the bible and all that you know about it and Jesus has not been distorted to a point that is not real?

Do not get me wrong there are some very ethical things to be learned in the teachings of Jesus but do you think that the church that wrote the the new testament could have had a different agenda in mind than one that was reality.

Could it be part of social engineering to keep the masses in an order that was manageable for the elite?

Yes, I am certain, that it has not been distorted to the point of being not real...If that was the case, Christianity, would have dwindled off far long ago...

Maybe, But scripture itself, the one that they may have written to propose these agenda's you talk about says in the end....If anything is false it will be corrected, if anything is written not to be in there it will be removed...So if they had these agenda's I think they would have been smart enough to leave that out, Don't you think? Or by there very actions they have condemned themselves then, and knew it by writing it....So it seems to me that there was a divine presence who was for writing these scriptures...and if people proposed to write this to portray something it is not, then if God exists they have by their own words condemned themselves....

Why then have these masses not disregarded what is said in the Christian Bible? It would not have lasted this long...and people would have realized long ago it's nothing but bullshit, and doesn't have any bearing to the Torah whatsoever, which is not the case at all....

read this post as to who and what I think Jesus is...

http://able2know.org/topic/166295-7#post-4849434

Do you have evidence to confirm this statement? Do you not realize that many people enjoy distorted behavior? Just read some of the post on the highest rated thread within this forum.

http://able2know.org/topic/33349-540