I like this, I really did not like posting three or four seperate posts to just one person so thank you for consolidating. If I had done it then it wold have been much much longer to the point of just being ridiculous!
Just to clarify I meant that I do not like when people do that. I was unfocused last night so I guess I missed the "not". Not to sound conceited or anything, but the way that I propose is more efficient. I'm not denying that religion can do good, it's just that my way is more efficient and without all of the "baggage" that religion brings...so to put it simply...it's better.
When compared to everyone else now and that's the point that I was trying to make. I don't believe that I do anymore than I should or what I deem should be normal, if everyone did as I do would I still be commemorated as I am now? I highly doubt that, it would just be the new norm and anyone outside of that (who would be considered normal today) would be looked down upon. Once/if the world's perspective changes then I would just be another face in the crowd and that's it.
Not every path can be the best though. So no, we cannot both be right. The only thing that your path has on mine (although not proven whatsoever) is the potential for an afterlife. Outside of that there is pretty much nothing that your path can offer that is better than mine... Just to be funny:
If they are doing the same thing then how are they different paths?
However close our ultimate goals may be we are not on the same path. From my perspective, you waste very valuable hours, days, months, and even years in the pursuit of a non-existent magical sky daddy which is of no benefit to this world except in way's in which people conjure up in their minds.
I've used this example before but imagine how much better this world would be if people replaced the time they spent in devotion to non-existent deity, to do something beneficial for humanity.
That would literally be billions of hours every week from billions of people all around the world. So which is better, sitting in place of worship for a couple hours listening to someone drone on, or to actually doing something to benefit those around us?
Who would be hindered and why? You seem to avoid the question and keep repeating yourself. If your god is actually real, and if he took a more direct hand in guiding up then so much of the world would be healed of all of this hatred and we would grow VASTLY stronger in our unity. You claim your god to be good yet he would leave us on the wayside like this without any assistance our guidance...well at least without any measurable or worthwhile guidance. The only thing people could try and claim as actual guidance would be the bible yet you deviate from a majority of that.
From my understanding of our situations, I change my opinion to improve upon what is already good while you change your opinions to rationalize the irrational or bad. If you go back to our discussion on heaven and hell, the bible states that we have this one life and faith alone is the deciding factor as to whether we go up or down. You then altered this claim to incorporate some version of reincarnation as well as a karma based system. Neither of those changes improve your path in the way that my changes would improve mine.
If I do change my opinion on something though, you are of course more than welcome to address it and we can discuss it further. I would truly enjoy that!
If that's true, what about people who can't do these things your way? Your way works for you, my way works for me...Billions of Atheist do it similar to your way, billions of Christians do it my way...but so long as it gets done "progressing humanity" to me there is no better way, it's just indifference...
The baggage you talk about, to billions who embrace do not feel it is baggage....but it is ness. in accepting "faith" itself...So it's kinda like doing twice as much work! And a harder thing to do, with more positives in the end (if God is right) (by your views, an afterlife, if it exists) So the work is worth while so to speak...
But each person deserves to be not just another face in the crowd...This is evident in how much each one of us is personally different looking, and have different perspectives on life...you are who you are, and there are reasons for that...and each person brings something special to the table...rather than us all being like droids or robots, without the individuality that we have...I find that special...without looking for personal gain from it...but to take in the differences bring togetherness...It indeed is a greater accomplishment than all of us being norm and doing the norm all the time...The world would be boring....
So why not challenge if your path is truly the best, and if there is not others even better? Really? How could you be so certain that is the only thing that may be better? maybe in conjunction to your life it is, but in conjunction to mine it's not, So again who is right, I would say neither, it is about finding yourself, and what makes you happy, and completes you personally, and as individuals...
Because they start differently, and the journey is different, but we end up at the same place...Different paths, same goal....neither better than another...all equally just as valid, and important to shape individuals, and peoples perspectives...as well as the differences it cause, for us to work harder to overcome proves it is a greater feat, than going down the same path...
That is if your in fact true, and correct...but it can't be validated for certain till either God reveals himself, or we rot...SO either we will all learn one day, or no one will ever answer this question...Sorry to say, and not to bring you down...that is another example of how it's not a waste, If God exists and answers the unanswered it should give an atheists a reason to always have the possibility in the back of their minds...but since they believe he is non-existent...It's like saying, I do not wish to think about it, because what I don't know can't hurt me...When in actually If there is a God, It was of the ut most importance to do and get to know him as fast as you could have....and that embracing atheism in the end was the waste...chasing after things which benefit the world, our personal lives, but no concept of the bigger and better things that lay await...
But many get there devotion to do good for humanity, from this non-existent deity, You cant discredit that...So therefor, these people make him real one way or another....and if they're using him to help others, seems like there is no reason to believe he is non-existent...
Like I listed above why can't they do both? You feel it is your duty to do good and be a norm....Some people go and worship for a couple of hr's and are inspired to do these good things, and appreciate the fact they do good, and others doing good for them in return...I appreciate your goodness, why not tell someone else what they are doing is a good thing to do, it goes into enriching them to continue to do these things, where as with your path, people being of norm, will have to fight against the fact that they don't have to do it if they don't want to...which allows people to slip into some sort of laziness for some...or rejection...
because the ultimate goal is not to have unity of earth, and the earth by nature is corrupt...We would never achieve unity, because there would always be nutter out there causing strife....So you take the world for what it is worth, and you see that the only plausibility of unity that exists would be a Heaven....with which many have said they would wish to be there for 100,000 years and wish to not blow their brains out?? If ultimate unity is achieved somehow somewhere (Heaven, if real) why would you want to leave, ever??
Reincarnation, karma to be accepted into a utopian euphoric unity kingdom forever, does not improve or change my views for the better of the path I take?? Yes they do change the path similar to the way you change your because my ultimate goal is for salvation in Heaven forever, and my things I listed do that or enhance that possibility...Your changes improve your path similiarly, because they would better the world, yes! but it would not last forever....as the world will not exist forever...but If God, afterlife exist...then it will be completeness forever...not for a time being...that no one knows for certain when it will cease to exist...
I feel we change our opinions all the time, would you not agree? The fact we discuss shows that to me...If your still convinced you're right about everything you say, then we would be repeating ourselves over and over, it may happen from time to time, but it is not the consenses, of what is happening over time...But I look forward to the continuing conversations indeed!! have a great day!
Sometimes I feel as though I love you like brother yet sometimes I want to rip your face off (exaggerated of course). I'm sure that you've seen this reflected in some of my posts (like this on in particular). I really don't mean to sound harsh or insensitive at times but I am human and sometimes things can tweak me the wrong way...so whenever I'm being mean, it just means that I'm irked but it's not personal.
It's not always about being right, but about listening and understanding one another... 
I'm afraid I don't understand how people couldn't do things my way? The only possible way in which I could conceive such a thing would be if a person felt themselves to be so pathetic, weak, and dependent that they couldn't do anything on their own. This is however a negative thing which should be removed because there are no positives in this way of thinking. What these people don't realize is that they already do these things on their own...they just don't/can't make that connection. Both paths may progress humanity, but the path that i have outlined does so much more. If you had the choice feed 100 people or to end starvation, which would you choose? All the help that I've seen come from religion (while good) is stagnant, it's like putting a bandaid on a person that has cancer. It makes people feel good and cared for but does it really help the problem or just delay the real medicine that people need?
I do not agree, since when did "feeling" have any weight in truth? As far as the baggage itself, I'll assume that you will correct yourself when reveal what "baggage". I mean all the bigotry and hatred against those that are different, the pointless wars for land because people have dictated their god to being their real estate agent, the terrorist attacks against other religions, and so on, and so on, and so on. You also said billions so you were incorporating all believers which includes the people who use their beliefs for these acts and not just singling down to the exceptionally limited number that think as you seem to. I also don't understand you exclamation point after you say "it's kinda like doing twice the work" what does this "extra work" actually accomplish? What point is there in it if it benefit's no one? Also, just to clarify, the question isn't whether your God is right or not, the question is whether your God is a part of reality or not. The question "is god right" is baised since it must already be based on the assuption that your god is real, if your god is real then he's automatically right thus your original point is moot. Your god is just as proven as vampires and voodoo. If we should give credibility to your god then we must also give the same credibility to all the other irrational hairbrained fables that roam this planet today. Everyone should be hanging garlic from their front and back doors and line brick dust around their houses as well as all the other bat-**** crazy stuff people think of.
When I said "just another face in the crowd" I meant in my "good deeds" alone. If everyone did the same amount of good deeds as me then would I be praised and commemorated nearly as much for them as I am now? no. Based on this post it seems as if you think I want the world to be like the world in the movie "Equilibrium", this is not the case. I appreciate the good and meaningful differences between people, it gives the world color and beauty. Differences are one of the best things in which help us expand our understanding of both the world and ourselves.
I'm not talking about specific path for each and every individual, I'm talking about a path for humanity. When you talk about your path, does that mean that you want people to pretty much live the exact same life that you have?
The only advantage that you're path could have over mine is the unproven and untestable supernatural. Your god has been tested by science and every time (that I know of) he has failed (although theists love to rush in with their excuses) so really the only thing that is left is the supposed after life. There is no proof or evidence of your (or any) god's supposed direct influence and/or assistance in this world, nor any angels or anything like that. As far as challenging my path, I encourage you to do so by any means you wish. The reason that my path is best is because it represents what is ultimately best. If ever a part of it, most of it, or even all of it is ever found to be wrong, flawed, or anything, it will adjust and morph to that which is best. It doesn't ignorantly hold onto unnecessary flaws and weakness, it removes them and goes on to more important things.
To put my path into better perspective, it's like a straight super highway where all of the lanes are going in the same forward direction but there are many different "lanes" to choose from and you can change lanes whenever you wish. So there are many different lanes or individual paths that people can take while still maintaining the same strong uniform path forward. Also, my path won't have a ultimate "goal" or "destination", it will only be in the direction of rationality, reason, logic, and truth...whether a person would call that a destination or not is debatable.
Not to sound rude or mean, but this part is so horribly irrational I don't really know where to start. First I guess would be how are we suppose to know about what no one has a clue about? There are about 36,000 documented denominations of christianity alone around the world, not only that, but I'm certain that there are millions of different interpretations of the same god within those denominations. Not only that, but all of those interpretations are constantly changing in the face of scientific progress and the advancement of the believer's understanding of the world, so how any anyone expected to know this ONE god?
The next problem would be that you stated that faith isn't the only way to get into heaven anymore because now you god has implemented some version of both karma, and reincarnation. By doing this I will already have pretty much unlimited chances to get into heaven so it doesn't matter if I believe or not in this life, especially since my good deeds will get me off the hook! If everyone does eventually find a way to my path (which I think will be, either that or the utter destruction of our species) then will your god just start sending everyone to hell because no one gives a crap about him anymore?
While I can't deny that some sort of deity may exist, I can deny the personal god's in which people worship today without know everything. I don't need to open ever letter in ever post office to know there is not a 2-d object that is both circular and square. Personal gods (such as the christian god) do not exist, there may be a god such as the "Einsteinian god"...but I doubt that. Yet another problem would be that it is supposedly of "ut most importance" to know your god yet by your own volition it doesn't matter whether we know him so long as we do good deeds. Based on past posts you have stated that your god has most likely (if he didn't always) have a karma and/or reincarnation plan implimented as well and that we will get nearly unlimited chances in order to get planted into a family that beats your god into our heads so hard as children that we can't think any other way! So ironically, based on this irrational rationalization you have made it more logical to follow my path regardless of the debate as to whether your god exists or not. If it's unknown (which it is now), then it's safer to follow my path because we acheive the best goals of my plan while still maintaining the safety net of karma and reincarnation, and if he doesn't then your god's not even worth talking about at all! The only way that you can make it so that your path might be considered best is if you keep the original asshole god of the bible with the 1 life to have faith or your fucked set up...I really could continue but if I do then this one "mini" section would be far too long.
This only shows that some people need a catalyst in order to be persuaded to do good things. If I said that I do my good deeds because of Eragon in the inheritance cycle does that mean that he's real? of course not, it's a fairytale in which parts of it give decent moral guidance. This is also where you seem to get confused, it's only the idea of him that's doing this, not him. An idea doesn't equate to reality, belief is one the most powerful things known on this planet. Belief has caused more harm and death than anything else combined and it has also caused more healing and joy than anything else...and I'm not just talking about belief in a deity. Another thing is that the only reason you can really say that many get their devotion to do good from a non-existent deity, is because a vast majority of people are theistic, now as far as whether people actually do good because of a god or not is debateable. I'm pretty sure that Jesus wasn't really much of an advocate of animal rights but there are many people who provide funds and service to help our less fortunate furry and fluffy friends.
You should be able to answer this question yourself. You think that Jesus is the only acceptable path while I think that this is the only acceptable path. I'm not saying that all other paths are equal in their undesirability, just that they are not a efficient as my path is. Yes there are many good paths but none which bring about such beneficial unity in such an overwhelming way, every other way that I've seen only ends up creating turmoil with someone else.
So you're saying that your asshole god just made a huge fucked up planet that can never get along and where meant to just kill each other off until the end of time for stupid **** no one should care about?
The place where we call home in this vast universe, this place our children will/do call home and our childrens children and so on is just a big piece of **** to you and your god since everything here is just about getting there?
What sort of fucked up asshole god are you preaching about here? There is not a shred of logic in this what-so-ever and the only conclusion I can see from such an assertion is that your god is a beyond the descriptive powers of vulgar language. I apologize for my vulgar language here but I feel it's deserved after your first comment alone on this. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the "nutters" that you're referring to incorporate you as well, the unity and peace that I propose comes from what you don't seem to be able to understand. Why must we waste our time and efforts with fables, you say that if ultimate unity were ever made, why would we want to leave such a place?
You waste your time hope for a place in the stars when all you have to do is move you feet here and make this our own slice of heaven! If we achieve unity and peace here then who would want for your heaven hen they already have it here? Most people don't want to subject themselves to the bowels of the world but until we do we will continue to live in this **** hole... all people need to do is just take a few minutes to grab a broom or mop and do their part...is that really so hard?
It would greatly improve your path if this "utopia" could actually be proven to exist...other wise you're just piling on the crap...
It depends on what you're referring to when you say "opinions" if you mean what we feel is the ideal path for humanity, then I disagree. The basic outline and what makes my path best will never change, occasionally the details may change alond with our understanding of the world but that's it. As far as my opinions in general, yes, they change constantly. Sometimes I feel as though I love you like brother yet sometimes I want to rip your face off (exaggerated of course). I'm sure that you've seen this reflected in some of my posts (like this on in particular). I really don't mean to sound harsh or insensitive at times but I am human and sometimes things can tweak me the wrong way...so whenever I'm being mean, it just means that I'm irked but it's not personal
But I would say some good words to you if your departing....Do not be certain about everything...It is good to question/and be riven with doubt concerning few things...and it is easier to see people eager to learn, and enlighten yours and their experiences here in the process...
Insulting your intelligence in any way, shape, or form??? What in any way implied that your intelligence is lacking, by the above post??
You insulted my intelligence by trying to preach to let's say "an old soul".. When you've already confirmed that, that is what you see, in me, an old soul.. But yet, you are trying to teach and preach to me.. I am in no way forcing anyone to do or say, believe anything....that is for them to accept or not based on what I and others proclaim....(and in NO WAY, am I saying you do not or are uncapible of doing this because your path is different...or something along the lines of that)...So before hand please refrain yourself from taking what I am saying as an insult....I am telling you now, ahead of time....If I wanted to insult you, I would have done it outright, and not beat around the Bush, but that is not who I am or about, nor what I am doing....So please take this into account, before you say that in my preachings I am insulting you...
