52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 01:42 pm
@InfraBlue,
I agreed with almost everything you said in this post, InfraBlue...except for when I got to the end.

Quote:
One would think that he would have prescribed a kinder, gentler sufferance-free ethnic cleansing.


The vast majority of everything the god of the Bible ever said is recorded in the first five books of the Bible. There is nothing there that would cause anyone to suppose that the god would even consider a "kinder, gentler" solution to anything.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 02:02 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
According the the Tanakh YHWH ordered the ethnic cleansing of the Amalekites because they attacked the Israelites as they were encroaching on Amalek land. There is no mention there of child sacrifice as being the reason for the ethnic cleansing that YHWH ordered.
Got me there. I was referring to Canaanite religions in general.
neo wrote:
Before we lament over the millions, perhaps billions, who have lived in misery and died painful deaths, (and we should lament) we should remind ourselves that these did not suffer by the purpose of Jehovah.
InfraBlue wrote:
So, the suffering experienced by the Amalekites through JHWH's order of ethnic cleansing was unintended.

One would think that he would have prescribed a kinder, gentler sufferance-free ethnic cleansing.
None of mankind's suffering was intended. All who have ever lived have been 'cleansed' in one way or another. "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin. " (Romans 6:7)

The Bible speaks of a resurrection for righteous and unrighteous, whether they knew of God or not. My brother died a painful death from cancer. In his new life, when he has perfect health, I suspect he will rather praise God for life than curse him for past pain.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 04:31 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
None of mankind's suffering was intended. All who have ever lived have been 'cleansed' in one way or another. "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin. " (Romans 6:7)


So in the case of the Amalekites JHWH chose to slaughter them to cleanse/acquit them of their sin, but he didn't intend for them to suffer therefrom.

Do you know how ridiculous your rationalizations sound?

Quote:
The Bible speaks of a resurrection for righteous and unrighteous, whether they knew of God or not. My brother died a painful death from cancer. In his new life, when he has perfect health, I suspect he will rather praise God for life than curse him for past pain.


This is a red herring and non-sequitur in regard to JHWH's slaughter of the Amalekites.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 05:23 pm
@InfraBlue,
You make excellent points, I will admit. But we are reasoning from different axioms.

My basis is that death entered the world of mankind trough the transgression of Adam and Eve.

Everything recorded in the Hebrew texts is to identify the Messiah.

We may find the relation distressful. But the events still had to be recorded.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 05:20 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Re: InfraBlue (Post 5293777)
You make excellent points, I will admit. But we are reasoning from different axioms.

My basis is that death entered the world of mankind trough the transgression of Adam and Eve.


Are you of the opinion that the dinosaurs did NOT die...or that they did NOT exist?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 05:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Are you of the opinion that the dinosaurs did NOT die...or that they did NOT exist?


Of course they didn't die, they all joined the Republican party.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 06:06 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Of course they didn't die, they all joined the Republican party.


Ahhh...my first out-loud laugh of the day. It won't be the last, but I will probably be the one I reflect on tonight when I hit the sack.

Thanks, Izzy. (Have managed a few "moderates"...but even the "easy's" still stump me from time to time. But I do at least one every night! Great recommendation. Thanks.)
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 06:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
We've got warm up, easy, moderate, tricky, extreme and deadly.

I can do a few extremes, but the deadlies are beyond me.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 07:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Are you of the opinion that the dinosaurs did NOT die...or that they did NOT exist?
I am of the opinion that dinosaurs are not specifically mentioned in the Bible
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 07:51 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Are you of the opinion that the dinosaurs did NOT die...or that they did NOT exist?
I am of the opinion that dinosaurs are not specifically mentioned in the Bible


Franks way of saying " I refuse to answer, as it might incriminate or something me".
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 03:06 am
@neologist,


Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5294123)
Frank Apisa wrote:
Are you of the opinion that the dinosaurs did NOT die...or that they did NOT exist?

I am of the opinion that dinosaurs are not specifically mentioned in the Bible


No they are not.

So when you said earlier, "My basis is that death entered the world of mankind trough the transgression of Adam and Eve"...you left out the fact that all sorts of things existed and died before your Adam and Eve fable.

So how could death have entered the world through the "transgressions" of Adam and Eve?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 03:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
Because there is no such thing as death except to a human being.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 04:00 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5294123)
Frank Apisa wrote:
Are you of the opinion that the dinosaurs did NOT die...or that they did NOT exist?
I am of the opinion that dinosaurs are not specifically mentioned in the Bible
No they are not.

So when you said earlier, "My basis is that death entered the world of mankind trough the transgression of Adam and Eve"...you left out the fact that all sorts of things existed and died before your Adam and Eve fable.

So how could death have entered the world through the "transgressions" of Adam and Eve?
Sorry to have confused the issue, Frank. When I said "death entered the world of mankind", I meant humanity. No humans had ever died before the transgression of Adam ans Eve.

And since you now seem to acknowledge that death must have existed prior to the time of Adam and Eve, I suppose you may agree that Adam and Eve knew what it was.

OR, am I wrong again?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 06:09 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Sorry to have confused the issue, Frank. When I said "death entered the world of mankind", I meant humanity. No humans had ever died before the transgression of Adam ans Eve.


I see. Okay.

Quote:
And since you now seem to acknowledge that death must have existed prior to the time of Adam and Eve, I suppose you may agree that Adam and Eve knew what it was.


Hello, Neo. They could KNOW that death existed...and not think there was anything wrong or evil about it...or that there was anything to fear about it.

They did not have that kind of knowledge, because the myth has them denied that knowledge by the god...who also denied them the knowledge that there was anything wrong with disobeying its silly directive not to eat the fruit of a tree that it put in the center of their existence.


Quote:
OR, am I wrong again?


Not really wrong, Neo...just frustrated because you want so much to make this childish bit of nonsense seem reasonable.

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Hello, Neo. They could KNOW that death existed...and not think there was anything wrong or evil about it...or that there was anything to fear about it.

They did not have that kind of knowledge, because the myth has them denied that knowledge by the god...who also denied them the knowledge that there was anything wrong with disobeying its silly directive not to eat the fruit of a tree that it put in the center of their existence.

Right, Frank. How about this previously unrecorded conversation in the Garden of Eden?
Neo, in wild irresponsible speculation wrote:
Eve: "Adam! Whatever shall we do? Frank, our pet ferret is dead. He got filched by that foul falcon. Is that bad?"
Adam: "Critters die all the time, Eve. What's your problem?
Eve: "But I miss Frank! He was so funny, the way he frolicked frivolously in the fern garden. . .WAAAH!"
Adam: "It's a good thing we don't die Eve. Stay away from that tree, OK?"
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:15 am
@neologist,
You shoulda rested your case.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Don't like ferrets, eh, Frank?
BTW, I posted that first.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:30 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5295178)
Don't like ferrets, eh, Frank?
BTW, I posted that first.


I love ferrets.

A problem was once proposed to me here in this very forum:

Would you rather reason with an evangelical theist...or try to teach quantum mechanics to a ferret.

The latter seemed like a better bet.

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:36 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank was a fabulously good student for a ferret, Frank.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 11:05 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Would you rather reason with an evangelical theist...or try to teach quantum mechanics to a ferret.

The latter seemed like a better bet.


It's a great pity you didn't go with your better bet.
 

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