52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:02 am
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

Your logic fails you if you agree with Lustig's premise. Merely to meet Jesus you would know he was the saviour? I'm pretty sure Pontious Pilate, King Herod and a bunch of Hebrew priests and roman soldiers met him and they weren't convinced. And I wasn't having a cheap shot - though I'm tempted to now. I seriously thought about what would convince me I'd met JC mark two. And I toyed with Lustig's idea that you would just know, until I considered the point I make in the first paragraph. Think about it. Adam was on a first name basis with God and clearly he didn't believe in God's omniscience/omnipotence.


We're not talking about the 1st Century c.e. here, hinge, but, rather a so-called Second Coming. I'm no Christian, but, looking at the question from a Christian's point of view, if you believe in the rest of the claptrap then there's no reason to think any particular proofs would be needed. You're thinking in historical terms. But this is mysticism, pure and complicated, not an exercise in rational thought. And I'll tell you something else -- when I definitely would not believe that a person was Jesus or Budha or the reincarnation of the Prophet Muhammad is if this person started "proving" something by producing a burning bush or walking on water or whatever. Those are just cheap tricks, unworthy of someone who claims holiness let alone divinity.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:23 am
@Lustig Andrei,
We're not talking about the 1st Century c.e. here, hinge, but, rather a so-called Second Coming. I'm no Christian, but, looking at the question from a Christian's point of view, if you believe in the rest of the claptrap then there's no reason to think any particular proofs would be needed. You're thinking in historical terms. But this is mysticism, pure and complicated, not an exercise in rational thought. And I'll tell you something else -- when I definitely would not believe that a person was Jesus or Budha or the reincarnation of the Prophet Muhammad is if this person started "proving" something by producing a burning bush or walking on water or whatever. Those are just cheap tricks, unworthy of someone who claims holiness let alone divinity.

Which shows EVEN more "logic" and understanding Lustig, for you gave me an exceptable answer but you don't claim to be Christian...it shows you have or at least understand deeper insights into other beliefs that you may or may not follow...that is being as "LOGICAL" as you possibly can be...

you summed it up quite well why there would NEVER be a need for "miracles" in the second comming of Christ...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:27 am
@Lustig Andrei,
...not an argument in itself since "cheap" is what sells...
...if Christ Buddha or whatever else in vogue at the time did n´t went on a "cheap entourage" for the masses then they would never would have become famous in the first place...
...that said and properly de-codified just means that those divinity´s who were not created by the people and for the people never reach to far in history...God is cheap by definition !
...a less cheap God, say an Einstein´s God, does n´t sell not even here...either it comes with all the cheap strings or good luck to sell it around and portrait has a God !... Laughing
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:30 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

...not an argument in itself since "cheap" is what sells...
...if Christ Buddha or whatever did n´t go on "cheap entourage" they would never become famous...
...that said and properly de-codified just means that those divinity´s who were not created by the people and for the people never reach to far in history...


Then they are not, in fact, divinities.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:36 am
@Lustig Andrei,
...re-edited above...(I do it often since I am not a native speaker of English)
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:39 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
since your core beliefs is evidence...please explain how EVERYTHING you have just posted is strictly not your opinions please?? or are you now taking leaps of faith or educated guesses or whatever each Atheist labels them as to what you "feel" is right...if that's the case either way...Atheism shows Just as Much Division as ANY of those religions mentioned in the people you have in fact listed....because Atheists say they live on evidence only...but when an Atheist can't definitively prove something they revert back to taking leaps of faith in what they particularly and personally believe is correct....showing when it comes to disecting your beliefs (Atheism) most Atheists shut off the fact that they contradict themselves in there lifestyles, but yet harp on EVERY CHRISTIAN, BUDDHIST, TAOIST, HINDU etc about Hypocracy.....
Fil Albuquerque
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:44 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
...just shut the **** up Spades ! What the hell do you know on my atheism anyway eh ?
...I just don´t believe in a childish, personnel and anthropomorphic God as you do...my God is a more abstract an less colourful less playful picture, not for your taste tedium mortal !
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:48 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

We're not talking about the 1st Century c.e. here, hinge, but, rather a so-called Second Coming. I'm no Christian, but, looking at the question from a Christian's point of view, if you believe in the rest of the claptrap then there's no reason to think any particular proofs would be needed. You're thinking in historical terms. But this is mysticism, pure and complicated, not an exercise in rational thought. And I'll tell you something else -- when I definitely would not believe that a person was Jesus or Budha or the reincarnation of the Prophet Muhammad is if this person started "proving" something by producing a burning bush or walking on water or whatever. Those are just cheap tricks, unworthy of someone who claims holiness let alone divinity.
/quote]

Would you consider taking a few minutes to learn how to use the quote button?
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 01:21 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
you summed it up quite well why there would NEVER be a need for "miracles" in the second comming of Christ...

Then why was there a need the first time around? Did God make a mistake? Where in the bible does it say 'you'll just know it's the real Jesus'? I'm guessing the issue is addressed somewhere in revelations, but the life of me I can't remember how.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 04:24 am
Just stepping in, without reading prior posts -
I would look on anyone making the claim as greatly deluded. I don't believe that a real Jesus ever did walk the earth, but it is possible a real person or set of historical mind processes was credited beyond any possible achievements. I would smile at the man and walk away.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  8  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 04:26 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I’d probably ask him why am I gay, and if he created me this way then why is he sending me to hell.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 04:41 am
I know of no reason from scripture to assume that he'd be anxious to convince anyone of anything. Certainly the god of the old testament wouldn't give a rat's ass what you believe.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 06:18 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
What do you expect to do when you remain in heaven for eternity? You have no need for food, drink, sleep, work, education, mundane entertainment, acts of charity, kindness or compassion. What would heavenly humour be like? You will have to remain with your wife who died 20yrs before you and you then remarried and although you couldn’t divorce you didn’t like each other very much by the end but you have to spend and eternity with her and your previous wife. Your children committed one to many sins so they are in hell for eternity and you have to remember that every day for eternity.
I’d be careful what I wished for even if it was possible I couldn’t come up with an existence in heaven that would be perfect for an eternity.

Forget about Jesus being able to take us to heaven. We should think about whether we'd want to go. Hell is not the only alternative, that's just what you'd (i.e. people who promote heaven) like us to believe. Smile
0 Replies
 
wayne
 
  8  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 07:34 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
You haven't proven anything, throughout this thread, you've simply made gross assumptions of other peoples beliefs, based against you're own self-righteousness.
Your own pride prevents you from seeing the most basic of your errors.
Anyone appearing and calling himself Jesus has already proven himself a fraud.
A true savior goes by no name, he is the one "they called Jesus".
Objectifying God is the most prideful of human errors.
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:40 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

I am curious mostly to Atheists as to if Jesus did come in the second comming and said to you. I am Jesus, what will I have to do to prove to you I am the savior and God in the flesh....

What would you ask Jesus to do for you to prove he is the savior??


He would have to convince the billions of people around the world that there is not and never was a god, and that the many versions of the bible are merely someone's interpretation of a contrived fantasy that was framed to forward the author's agenda.

I'd then believe he was the savior returning to save us from religion and all the conflict generated by the various religions. I'd shake his hand, say thank you and go on about my day.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 12:51 pm
@wayne,
amen!

0 Replies
 
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 01:34 pm
@Butrflynet,
I'd then believe he was the savior returning to save us from religion and all the conflict generated by the various religions.

That about sums it up.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 01:34 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
You seem to have a habit of inventing words (omnipotent onicentness) and/or have difficulty with the language. Sure is unclear to me many times what your logic is about or your language.

{Edit: OHHH..you meant Omniscience. you really should stick to words you understand}

You refer to the biblical story of Adam as though it were/are a real historic event. This is proof that you're delusional besides being illogical. Only children or the delusional believe in fables.

Personally, I do my best to avoid such nonsensical discussions. I got involved here because you caught me between episodes of Two-and-a-half Men. At least that is entertainment that I can laugh at.

Carry on.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 01:44 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
I am curious mostly to Atheists as to if Jesus did come in the second comming and said to you. I am Jesus, what will I have to do to prove to you I am the savior and God in the flesh....

What would you ask Jesus to do for you to prove he is the savior??

Why would Jesus, who's core principle is "you gotta have FAITH" want to prove anything to anyone? It's an incongruous scenario.

Jesus (or the idea thereof) should understand his core principles better than to even ask the question, so I would immediately deduce that I was dealing with a charlatan or a moron.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 02:55 pm
Fil....
.just shut the **** up Spades ! What the hell do you know on my atheism anyway eh ?
...I just don´t believe in a childish, personnel and anthropomorphic God as you do...my God is a more abstract an less colourful less playful picture, not for your taste tedium mortal !

Very Nice! What exactly do You "believe" you actually know about TRUE Christianity to then make assumptions then?


roger
Would you consider taking a few minutes to learn how to use the quote button?

I don't understand why it upsets you that I don't know the quote button...but yes, if you explain it to me then I will try to figure it out...

hinge
Then why was there a need the first time around? Did God make a mistake? Where in the bible does it say 'you'll just know it's the real Jesus'? I'm guessing the issue is addressed somewhere in revelations, but the life of me I can't remember how.

the first time was to show and instill faith...now faith is abundant, and there is no need for miracles....God did NOT make a mistake, you will know because Jesus will come glorifying his Father saying worship truth God of Israel and the Beast will say worship me....

jcboy


I’d probably ask him why am I gay, and if he created me this way then why is he sending me to hell.

in ANY event who ever said he was going to send you to hell for being gay??
my guess as to asking Jesus why your gay is, because you actually LIKE being gay...(my own opinions here, I don't think you were created that way, but choose that lifestyle) I know of people who claimed to be gay, and found out they are not...so if your born gay seems to me none would be labeled as curious, this just makes it plausable to see that people choose to live their lives the way "THEY" want...same thing as me being straight choosing to fantasize about other women in my mind making me guilty of adultry just like the Bible says...but in ANY event who ever said he was going to send you to hell for being gay?? I don't believe I am going to hell and I am a BLOODY sinner just like we ALL are...rather if a MORTAL sin exists the ONLY one that does is denying God's existance till the end...other than that...you and I may be purged for certain sins, but can make it to Heaven if you really want to in the end...things we call mortal sins are most definately not...Most people will say that murder is the worst sin you can do...Moses killed a man and became a great man by submission, defeats the whole idea that certain physical sins we do will condemn us, rather again we may be purged for wickedness which I think Jesus will destroy that notion anyways, but in any event, how you show Jesus your love in return, or another words your love for God is what decides your afterlife...(don't listen to those who claim to be rightoues but tell you your going to hell for being gay, cause if that's the case they will be there right next to you....

setanta
I know of no reason from scripture to assume that he'd be anxious to convince anyone of anything. Certainly the god of the old testament wouldn't give a rat's ass what you believe.

(these are your opinions) and rather just cheap shots, I have nothing nice to say in response....have a nice day!

igm
What do you expect to do when you remain in heaven for eternity? You have no need for food, drink, sleep, work, education, mundane entertainment, acts of charity, kindness or compassion. What would heavenly humour be like? You will have to remain with your wife who died 20yrs before you and you then remarried and although you couldn’t divorce you didn’t like each other very much by the end but you have to spend and eternity with her and your previous wife. Your children committed one to many sins so they are in hell for eternity and you have to remember that every day for eternity.
I’d be careful what I wished for even if it was possible I couldn’t come up with an existence in heaven that would be perfect for an eternity.

Forget about Jesus being able to take us to heaven. We should think about whether we'd want to go. Hell is not the only alternative, that's just what you'd (i.e. people who promote heaven) like us to believe.

what other alternatives do you believe there are?

wayne


You haven't proven anything, throughout this thread, you've simply made gross assumptions of other peoples beliefs, based against you're own self-righteousness.
Your own pride prevents you from seeing the most basic of your errors.
Anyone appearing and calling himself Jesus has already proven himself a fraud.
A true savior goes by no name, he is the one "they called Jesus".
Objectifying God is the most prideful of human errors.

these are all your opinions, based on what you believe "my" faith is about in any event your wrong...

butr
He would have to convince the billions of people around the world that there is not and never was a god, and that the many versions of the bible are merely someone's interpretation of a contrived fantasy that was framed to forward the author's agenda.

I'd then believe he was the savior returning to save us from religion and all the conflict generated by the various religions. I'd shake his hand, say thank you and go on about my day.

also save the ones who deny any type of submission of any kind....such as Atheists...

ragman
You seem to have a habit of inventing words (omnipotent onicentness) and/or have difficulty with the language. Sure is unclear to me many times what your logic is about or your language.

{Edit: OHHH..you meant Omniscience. you really should stick to words you understand}


You refer to the biblical story of Adam as though it were/are a real historic event. This is proof that you're delusional besides being illogical. Only children or the delusional believe in fables.

Personally, I do my best to avoid such nonsensical discussions. I got involved here because you caught me between episodes of Two-and-a-half Men. At least that is entertainment that I can laugh at.

Carry on.

thanks for the critique...if it offends you to have to read my words and deciphor, than either please don't read my posts, type the same words you wrote to me, to every Atheist who does in fact misspell words to NOT be a hypocrite, or then please refrain from taking shots at me because your views are different.... its too bad that you think these discussions arn't worth your time but a show like two-and-a half men is...

ros


Why would Jesus, who's core principle is "you gotta have FAITH" want to prove anything to anyone? It's an incongruous scenario.

Jesus (or the idea thereof) should understand his core principles better than to even ask the question, so I would immediately deduce that I was dealing with a charlatan or a moron.

I was personally curious mostly from Atheists what there ideas and or moral acceptance is of their own personal views as to what constitutes "a sign or proof" I agree with you ros...that Jesus, would never do such things or excepts these concepts....
 

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