We shouldn't, but in finding him takes freedom of choice to learn and accept guidance...
Why would we need the freedom of choice when there is no better choice?
[quote-XXSpadeMasterXX]
Craig wrote:
What reason could anyone possibly give for denying what is best for all?
Self-Righteousness...or unaware of honesty...[/quote] If these are the alternatives then why even make them options? Neither of these options benefits anyone at all and only succeeds in hindering real beneficial progress.
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
What would it say about Jesus if we were forced to accept him??
Who said we would be forced to accept him? As my question above stated, what reason could anyone possibly give for denying what is best for all?
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Do you believe that people who truly know Jesus, are reasonable, logical, and understanding? without opposition to your way?
Religion opposes my way but the people who participate in religion do so only to various degree's. This isn't black in white, you aren't either reasonable or unreasonable it's like a tug of war between rationality and irrationality, it just depends on which side tugs harder in your mind that deems where you end up on the field.
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Chights47
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Sat 7 Jan, 2012 06:07 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Craig wrote:
I didn't really think much of it until you brought it up, but to me it seems like that you've transitioned more from defensive arguments to preaching. Rex seems a little on the fence about the whole god thing so you're now using posts in a guiding manner to explain your side rather than defending your faith from those who seek to question it.
And do you think this is better or worse...In your opinions...I feel it is much better indeed!
Well there are pro's and con's to it. I personally don't like being preached at although that's generally more when I'm speaking to people face to face because when it's face to face I can't be real without having a mob with pitchforks and torches on my doorstep. What's good about it is that you seem much more comfortable. So if I had to say one way or the other then I personally would ask you not to preach although you seem to get far more comfort from this than I receive discomfort so it would be best if you preach...at least that's my reckoning,
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Chights47
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Sat 7 Jan, 2012 06:08 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Why do you honestly want to know my specific details to my beliefs??
You said that religion is mostly bullshit, so I am afraid I do not understand why you wish to know my specific details??
If we go down that path it may lead to persecution....If your up for it because your interested, I will explain them to you...or honestly I will think about it, for I have way to many to list, and they are ever changing as more and more is revealed to me??
So why do you think you want to know about my beliefs??
Well since you have said that your belief's are ever changing then that pretty much eliminates that reason why I wanted to have an outline of them in the first place. The reason that I wanted them was so that i would be able to find any errors in the or point anything that is illogical...since they are ever changing however, that would make that pretty much pointless. It sort of goes along with our past discussion on irrational rationalizations, I was basing my argument on what a majority of people believe and what is stated in the bible. You seem to pretty much just deviate from all of that though which is why I wasnted an outline...which is pointless now.
I have taken the time to link all of your post into one, and will respond to them all...so my post may be long...
Post 1...
Quote:
I do like when people think this way because it's like you have a monopoly on "good". My ultimate goal and everything that I do to try and reach that goal goes against your god and any others. I don't do good things because of a god, I do then despite a god regardless of whether one actually exists or not.
But why fight God in doing this? can it not be achieved both ways??
Quote:
Just because people normally don't do something doesn't mean that the people who should should be commemorated. Take the world down a few notches when todays norm becomes what is "good" should people then be commemorated for that? If murder, rape, slavery, etc runs rampant right outside our door are the people who simply do not partake in those acts suppose to be considered pillars of righteousness? I simply believe that I do what people are suppose to do already, I don't do anything above and beyond that.
And your doing good things indeed...
Quote:
Religion seems great only because it's the majority, there are about 8x's as many Christians as Atheists and a majority of atheists are not open about being an atheist due to all the pursecution that comes along with that label. Many of the atheists today that volunteer do so through Christian organizations simply because there are few alternatives which places those atheists under the Christian label of aid even though they aren't believers.
And this is a good way to find outlooks for your persecution, indeed!
Quote:
Well I believe that everyone (to some extent) desires to live in a healthy and happy community. I simply believe that we should follow the best path to enhancing this in the most moral way.
And I agree, just find different paths in finding it, this does not mean were both night right!
Post 2...
Quote:
If these are the alternatives then why even make them options? Neither of these options benefits anyone at all and only succeeds in hindering real beneficial progress.
Why would you believe that 2 people from different paths doing the same things, makes one a hiderence??
Quote:
Who said we would be forced to accept him? As my question above stated, what reason could anyone possibly give for denying what is best for all?
Because if were hindering people, then it is best to have freedom, to learn and accept guidance directly from him...(Jesus)
Quote:
Religion opposes my way but the people who participate in religion do so only to various degree's. This isn't black in white, you aren't either reasonable or unreasonable it's like a tug of war between rationality and irrationality, it just depends on which side tugs harder in your mind that deems where you end up on the field.
And do you believe that this view does not hinder people as well??
Post 3...
Quote:
Well there are pro's and con's to it. I personally don't like being preached at although that's generally more when I'm speaking to people face to face because when it's face to face I can't be real without having a mob with pitchforks and torches on my doorstep. What's good about it is that you seem much more comfortable. So if I had to say one way or the other then I personally would ask you not to preach although you seem to get far more comfort from this than I receive discomfort so it would be best if you preach...at least that's my reckoning,
Thank you so very much for acommidating me and my time here, I appreciate this view....
Post 4...
Quote:
Well since you have said that your belief's are ever changing then that pretty much eliminates that reason why I wanted to have an outline of them in the first place. The reason that I wanted them was so that i would be able to find any errors in the or point anything that is illogical...since they are ever changing however, that would make that pretty much pointless. It sort of goes along with our past discussion on irrational rationalizations, I was basing my argument on what a majority of people believe and what is stated in the bible. You seem to pretty much just deviate from all of that though which is why I wasnted an outline...which is pointless now.
I understand, and if your opinions change, I will explain them to you...
If Jesus appeared claiming to be the savior
I would want him to disappear,not you,your tolerable.
I am not jewish.
I have read ALL the scriptures.in ancient language.
and no where is it mentioned that God begot a son.
except for LDS.
Yes you are right..
Embrace the same God as Abraham.
There is no god but God.
God, Jesus, the Universe does not want you or anyone else to preach of him/them in order to convert.
He wants you to 1) believe in him as the up-most importance and therefore believe in yourself so you can walk this Earth in the understanding of who you are, no one else matters, other than giving courtesy where due and to do unto others as you would want them to do to you, if I recall that verse correctly as I don't read the Bible, I don't attend Church, I don't need to...
2) He merely wants you to guide people into "thinking" about the above, he is higher than you, he knows how to do the rest... Why on Earth would he send people to preach? He was a Messenger if you believe and so, therefore, are others..
A message... gives you room to think.. Preaching to convert? I read where you got so excited that one person listened to you... You felt as if you won.. I can't see God / Jesus, or the Universe either, patting someone on the back for that.. There is no winning.. If you are "delivering" it's why you are here..
Have food for thought on that one.
It is MAN that preaches, to save himself as he doesn't know who he is...
Do you really need to go into this again? I was under the impression that not only did people realize that BillRM has some grammer and spelling issues, but also that no one actually cares about it anymore.
Yes I do. Bill's slobbering prose is symptomatic of his primitive thinking. This is evidenced with his simplistic response to any religious postulation. The If God exists why are there Tsunamis? response is repeated ad nauseum. This has been answered at length on this thread many times, many Atheists do not accept the answers given, but at least they understand them. Bill rejects Christianity, and any other form of religion, not because he accepts other arguments, but because he cannot comprehend this one. He constantly portrays any form of belief system as fundamentalist, and actually tells Christians the sort of Christianity they must believe in, because that's the only type of belief system he can comprehend. So when this grunting, semi-literate, proto-hominid tries to make out he's intelligent, because he rejects Christianity, I have to option but to point out his frog-brained senility.
You may think I'm being unduly harsh on him, picking on him just because of a supposed difference in the wiring of his brain, which would make me the schoolground bully. It might help if you tread some of his posts on other threads before you rush to his defence. You like to point out your moral viewpoint, and how it has nothing to do with spirituality, but common humanity. The voluntary work you do with less fortunate members of society is evidence of that.
Bill constantly argues in favour of rapists, people who watch child pornography, and drunk drivers who kill the homeless. He constantly threatens a female poster with sexual violence, in a most disgusting manner. If you truly believe in the moral superiority of Atheism you would be well advised to distance yourself from such a repulsive individual. He does for Atheism what the Westboro Baptist Church does for Christianity.
Bill constantly argues in favour of rapists, people who watch child pornography, and drunk drivers who kill the homeless.
This seems as though it could be a twist of Bill's words.
Bill do you really have an approving attitude toward rapist, people who watch child pornography, and drunk drivers who kill the homeless?
Bill do you really have an approving attitude toward rapist, people who watch child pornography, and drunk drivers who kill the homeless?
LOL no that is not my positions to say the least.
Izzy seems one of those simple minded persons that can not see in three dimensions and have almost a cartoon view of the world.
Rapists as in people who used force or threat of force or drugging to get sex no I do not support them but as far as defining any man who go out partying with an adult woman and she then regretting having sex under the voluntary influence of alcohol and try to declare the man a rapist I support the man.
I think that the punishment level for most cases of CP is out of line with the crime in the US and not all CP should be consider the same. There should be levels written into the law so pictures of 17 years olds and pictures of infants being rape is not one and the same thing calling for the same punishment.
Hell in fact I support the law on CP that Izzy live under in the UK.
Oh and young couples who share sexual pictures of themselves with each other should not come under that law.
In the case of a car/bike night accident and a manslaughter charge I think that it matter if or if not the accident was of such a nature that the blood alcohol level of the driver was the causation factor of not.
Izzythepush should be called Izzythetwist because he likes to twist the way people view things.
Don't feel alone because he has done it to me as well. It seems to be his way of dealing with people he dislikes or disagrees with.
I think it's his way of dealing with people he dislikes or disagrees with.
Yes ever since I dare to state my opinion that the US save the rear end of the US mother country [UK] in WW2 he been out to "get" me.
I in fact have the gentleman on ignore as his simple minded attacks can get very old and did not see his claim once more that I am a devil who support all kind of evils in the world.
I can see where someone could be offended by some of the things you say because they misinterpreted what you said but all one has to do is ask for you to clarify and that should put a rational person at ease.
Quote:
I think that the punishment level for most cases of CP is out of line with the crime in the US and not all CP should be consider the same. There should be levels written into the law so pictures of 17 years olds and pictures of infants being rape is not one and the same thing calling for the same punishment.
Someone could easily misinterpret the word rape as raped in this sentence and have negative views toward you. or they could have an extreme view and see a 17 year old in the same light as an infant.
Someone could easily misinterpret the word rape as raped in this sentence and have negative views toward you.
Sorry but Izzy had read most of my many posts on such subjects and know in details my positions on all the subjects he had just attack me on before he launch the attack on this thread.
There is no misinterprets in this matter at all in relationship to Izzy.
Now howabout getting back to the subject at hand as Izzy is not worth the time to deal with him.
That is why I said, "all one has to do is ask for you to clarify and that should put a {rational} person at ease.
0 Replies
Chights47
1
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Sun 8 Jan, 2012 01:37 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
I have taken the time to link all of your post into one, and will respond to them all...so my post may be long...
I like this, I really did not like posting three or four seperate posts to just one person so thank you for consolidating. If I had done it then it wold have been much much longer to the point of just being ridiculous!
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
But why fight God in doing this? can it not be achieved both ways??
Just to clarify I meant that I do not like when people do that. I was unfocused last night so I guess I missed the "not". Not to sound conceited or anything, but the way that I propose is more efficient. I'm not denying that religion can do good, it's just that my way is more efficient and without all of the "baggage" that religion brings...so to put it simply...it's better.
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
And your doing good things indeed...
When compared to everyone else now and that's the point that I was trying to make. I don't believe that I do anymore than I should or what I deem should be normal, if everyone did as I do would I still be commemorated as I am now? I highly doubt that, it would just be the new norm and anyone outside of that (who would be considered normal today) would be looked down upon. Once/if the world's perspective changes then I would just be another face in the crowd and that's it.
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
And I agree, just find different paths in finding it, this does not mean were both right right!
Not every path can be the best though. So no, we cannot both be right. The only thing that your path has on mine (although not proven whatsoever) is the potential for an afterlife. Outside of that there is pretty much nothing that your path can offer that is better than mine... Just to be funny:
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Why would you believe that 2 people from different paths doing the same things, makes one a hiderence??
If they are doing the same thing then how are they different paths? However close our ultimate goals may be we are not on the same path. From my perspective, you waste very valuable hours, days, months, and even years in the pursuit of a non-existent magical sky daddy which is of no benefit to this world except in way's in which people conjure up in their minds. I've used this example before but imagine how much better this world would be if people replaced the time they spent in devotion to non-existent deity, to do something beneficial for humanity. That would literally be billions of hours every week from billions of people all around the world. So which is better, sitting in place of worship for a couple hours listening to someone drone on, or to actually doing something to benefit those around us?
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Because if were hindering people, then it is best to have freedom, to learn and accept guidance directly from him...(Jesus)
Who would be hindered and why? You seem to avoid the question and keep repeating yourself. If your god is actually real, and if he took a more direct hand in guiding up then so much of the world would be healed of all of this hatred and we would grow VASTLY stronger in our unity. You claim your god to be good yet he would leave us on the wayside like this without any assistance our guidance...well at least without any measurable or worthwhile guidance. The only thing people could try and claim as actual guidance would be the bible yet you deviate from a majority of that.
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
And do you believe that this view does not hinder people as well??
What exactly does my path hinder? My path is of reason, logic, and understanding. The definition of "hinder" is: to obstruct or delay the progress of. So what exactly does reason, logic, and understanding obstruct or delay the progress of? Is it anything of benefit to anyone? What benefit can any other path bring that mine does not already possess? I would guarantee that since my path is of reason, logic, and understanding, that if their actually were a better path than mine, then my path would incorporate their idea's to become stronger, and better...so there's not really any way that you can logically win since my path simply represents what is best...period.
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
I understand, and if your opinions change, I will explain them to you...
From my understanding of our situations, I change my opinion to improve upon what is already good while you change your opinions to rationalize the irrational or bad. If you go back to our discussion on heaven and hell, the bible states that we have this one life and faith alone is the deciding factor as to whether we go up or down. You then altered this claim to incorporate some version of reincarnation as well as a karma based system. Neither of those changes improve your path in the way that my changes would improve mine. They are simply excuses that you provide to make what is originally claimed not as horribly irrational...not to meantion that not only the original statement has no real credibility, but the additional changes have even less credibility.
If I do change my opinion on something though, you are of course more than welcome to address it and we can discuss it further. I would truly enjoy that!
Yes I do. Bill's slobbering prose is symptomatic of his primitive thinking. This is evidenced with his simplistic response to any religious postulation. The If God exists why are there Tsunamis? response is repeated ad nauseum. This has been answered at length on this thread many times, many Atheists do not accept the answers given, but at least they understand them. Bill rejects Christianity, and any other form of religion, not because he accepts other arguments, but because he cannot comprehend this one. He constantly portrays any form of belief system as fundamentalist, and actually tells Christians the sort of Christianity they must believe in, because that's the only type of belief system he can comprehend. So when this grunting, semi-literate, proto-hominid tries to make out he's intelligent, because he rejects Christianity, I have to option but to point out his frog-brained senility.
If you are indeed forced against your will and have no self control to do anything but point out his "frog-brained senility", then you could at least appropriately direct it towards the idea's behind what he's posting so that you aren't a completely useless douche and at least contribute something with a least some value.
izzythepush wrote:
You may think I'm being unduly harsh on him, picking on him just because of a supposed difference in the wiring of his brain, which would make me the schoolground bully. It might help if you tread some of his posts on other threads before you rush to his defence. You like to point out your moral viewpoint, and how it has nothing to do with spirituality, but common humanity. The voluntary work you do with less fortunate members of society is evidence of that.
Perhaps you aren't unduly harsh but I do know that it's misguided as all I've really seen from you (including other threads) is you harassing him on his grammer and spelling, to continually point it out is childish and immature...you do also throw in some posts about his idea's but those are generally harsh as well. I also dislike that you bring up my moral viewpoint while also doing that in which irks me the most. Deceitfulness is one of the most irrationally supported immoral acts that I can think of. There are, of course, far most heinous acts of immorality but none that are so rampant and irrationally accepted as "good" in this world.
izzythepush wrote:
Bill constantly argues in favour of rapists, people who watch child pornography, and drunk drivers who kill the homeless. He constantly threatens a female poster with sexual violence, in a most disgusting manner. If you truly believe in the moral superiority of Atheism you would be well advised to distance yourself from such a repulsive individual. He does for Atheism what the Westboro Baptist Church does for Christianity.
Please, do not insult my intellegience by clearly lying and misinterpreting the truth. I specifically know of where you're referring to when you say that he favors people who watch child pornography and it's completely unfounded. He simply doesn't have an irrational black and white acceptance of the laws concerning it. By bringing this up, it only shows your ignorance/hatred and seriously lowers your credibility as to the rest of the claims. I can't deny them right now but think them highly unlikely or at the very least exaggerated/misguided.
He seems not to be too tightly wrap when it come to anyone who disagree with him and his whole silly campaign again me seem to had started when I dare to state that in my opinion the UK owe it very existed as anything but a German colony to the US aid during the WW2 period.
The comment was posted in relationship to his idea that the UK would be better off in going more toward the EU and away from the long standing special relationship with the US.
I'm more apt to believe you over Izzy but seeing as how I haven't seen the posts in question or not as familiar with them as I would prefer, I can't state one way or another with any certainty. As far as your explaination to all of the accusations that he has made against you, it seems in line to what I know about you. So if he's not lying through his teeth and just being a douche (which I find likely) then he better put up or shut up.
So if he's not lying through his teeth and just being a douche (which I find likely) then he better put up or shut up.
I am not so sure it is an issue of his lying as instead of him not being too tightly wrap and somehow he come up with turning my positions into the crazy claims he had posted here in his own mind.
Still dealing with him either way seems a complete waste of time and I had him on ignore for some time now.
