52
   

Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

 
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 02:43 pm
@Chights47,
Quote:
Oh I apologize, the specific wording you used was "throw them into the fire".

Again that is not what I did to you, and if you still feel that way I apologize to you...sincerely,

Quote:
You may also locate your post here: http://able2know.org/topic/176688-70#post-4832229 Unlike you I'm willing to give evidence First and foremost so that I do not appear disingenuous. You had whined about it page after page and then bring it up now after the "storm has blown over". You have opened up this can of worms again... This argument went on for at least 7 pages and about 10 pages later you bring it up again for pretty much no reason.

I opened the can of worms (and now deeply regret) because based on what a couple have said, I was under the impression that this is how atheists felt...and again I ask, just out of curiosity what is the difference between asking for a sign, and saying if you see evidence you'll embrace a God??

Quote:
Also looking back at those posts I see a few that I would now like to comment on that weren't originally direct to me but I would like to comment on them (since we're all about opening up previous can of worms now).

Do you think this is wise to do??

Quote:
You may locate this post here: http://able2know.org/topic/176688-68#post-4831220. It seems that you have forgotten your previous whining about my attempting to innocently address your grammer and spelling problems (I can also site the pages and specific posts if you would like). I no longer really care to actually address it as a problem based on how well you took it the last time I meantioned it (see the quote below).

So then there is no problems of hate then is there? and I was correct that we don't have hate problems?? I did not hate you even if we were fighting, and I think by the way you specifically resolved the situation, I presume you did not hate me, am I wrong??

Quote:
Just so you are aware, no one here is trying to attack you or is out to get you. Setanta can be a little "crass" at times but never without reason (at least from all of my experiences with them). While on this site, if you make a claim or assert some truth you should expect to be asked for evidence to back up those claims. If you cannot provide evidence or will refuse to provide the evidence requested, then do not make the claim. Don't make a claim then whine about it across several pages when called out on it. If you are corrected accept it if it's valid and if it's not valid, then present reasons as to why it's not valid. This is a site for grown ups here so try and act the part (which you do most of the time, you just have occasional bouts of immaturity).

I think I have already taken steps to improve the maturity level, now do you suppose you could lend this post to some others who are not taking in the maturity level expectations up?? Or does and is this post directly only toward myself?? Since it requires 2 people to fight....

Quote:
How can we expect to better ourselves and grow in our knowledge, wisdom, and maturity if our faults are not addressed and corrected? For what reason should we argue for our faults or ignore what is wrong or useless?

Good points, and I will take them to heart, I would only ask...in the future you address all party's that this pertains to...Or again just out of curiosity, Do you believe I am the only one guilty of these actions?? (Immaturity etc...)


RexDraconis111
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 03:08 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
don't see a lot challenging their world views, or beliefs/lack of beliefs...and to claim your right when you don't challenge what you believe or don't believe, tells me that there probably is not much validity behind this person's views...Until they challenge them...and are out of their "comfort zone"


As far as this one goes, I do challenge my beliefs. The fact that I have read and kept up with this thread is a testament to that, at least in my eyes. I've read other things, both good and bad to try to see if Christianity is indeed the right path. So far, the answers to my questions and the conclusions I'm drawing from my studying are coming up too short for me to change my beliefs, therefore, i will continue to believe the way I believe.
RexDraconis111
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 03:37 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
What is your purpose in being here??


And as far as this one goes, I first came here to answer your original question. then, as this thread evolved, I took it as a learning experience. I still don't believe in the theory of Jesus Christ being God in the flesh and the messiah and savior of an entire large group of people with the authority to grant passage into "heaven" or condemnation to "hell". I also still don't believe that whatever god or gods that are out there care a whole lot about what happens here on Earth. If he/she/it/they did, then one would think he/she/it/they would have intervened a long time ago.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 03:39 pm
@RexDraconis111,
I say to you, at least you understand and have the concept of this board correct (in my views) Which I implore...If you are doing this, than at least there is reason for you to come on here and challenge what you know and understand to get better incites, and your path is indeed for strengthening your own personal view as to atheism/Christianity....(if that is what you believe) (or Christianity, if that is what you believe) for you did not state it, and you don't have to, and it's not the focal point of this response... but I am not so sure about a lot of others on here....And am indeed curious as to why they come to debate Christians...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 03:43 pm
@RexDraconis111,
Quote:
And as far as this one goes, I first came here to answer your original question. then, as this thread evolved, I took it as a learning experience. I still don't believe in the theory of Jesus Christ being God in the flesh and the messiah and savior of an entire large group of people with the authority to grant passage into "heaven" or condemnation to "hell". I also still don't believe that whatever god or gods that are out there care a whole lot about what happens here on Earth. If he/she/it/they did, then one would think he/she/it/they would have intervened a long time ago.

Now, out of curiosity, What makes you believe they have not intervened? and what makes you believe that they don't care?? Why do you believe the story of Jesus is untrue??

Your answers are most appreciated...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 04:29 pm
@Chights47,
Quote:
You may also locate your post here: http://able2know.org/topic/176688-70#post-4832229 Unlike you I'm willing to give evidence First and foremost so that I do not appear disingenuous. You had whined about it page after page and then bring it up now after the "storm has blown over". You have opened up this can of worms again... This argument went on for at least 7 pages and about 10 pages later you bring it up again for pretty much no reason.

I opened the can of worms (and now deeply regret) because based on what a couple have said, I was under the impression that this is how atheists felt...My fault!! and again I ask, just out of curiosity what is the difference between asking for a sign, and saying if you see evidence you'll embrace a God??

Quote:
Also looking back at those posts I see a few that I would now like to comment on that weren't originally direct to me but I would like to comment on them (since we're all about opening up previous can of worms now).

Do you think this is wise to do??

This is indeed not a good path to go down at all. I can perceive it, and I know you can as well...You asked me to raise the maturity, which I took accountability for, and even said I deeply regret going down that path...Now your contradicting yourself, by saying...(and this is not to offend you, but you said for others to point out your flaws) ( I would consider this a flaw, and believe, making you aware is a beneficial thing to do, indeed) your contradicting yourself, because you last said I should not open cans of worms, and should raise the maturity, but then said you were going to in fact do the same thing in response...Are you not held accountable under your own views>? Why would anyone take you seriously, about the worms, and maturity, if you don't do it yourself, and lead by example?...

I can already perceive this can-of-worms opening has "majority wise" mostly to do with me...If that is the case, and you wish to explain your problems, than if it has to do with me. Since I can not stop you, and your free to do as you please, I am asking you sincerely, ahead of time, just in case, to have these discussions through Private Messages...as I do not wish to do this again, I value your incite, and do not wish to go down these types of paths again. or multiple times...For I don't think anything good will come of it....

That's just my perspective, and your free to do and say what you wish....But I am honestly asking you to stand down from this stance...So that we will all grow maturity wise, and knowledge, wisdom etc...all those things you listed...

However, If your truly intent on opening the can-of-worms after this post...If it pertains to me....I would ask that you please respect the fact I asked you in advance to do it with me via P.M. and I will answer your questions, and it does not drag other people into it, nor does it waste time and space on this thread...

Ty, the choice is yours....



reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 04:45 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Why haven't you responded about the short video that Procrustes shared with us all? I thought that it was rather interesting and was wondering what you thought about it?

Here it is again.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 04:50 pm
@Chights47,
Quote:
.I don't ask for signs because all of the "signs" that have been claimed, all of them have been falsified or at least not proven.


You do not have to ask for a sign because when you see the one I asked for you will not have any further disbelief in God. Drunk
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 05:04 pm
This young lady seems to have a logical point of view.

XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 10:36 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Why haven't you responded about the short video that Procrustes shared with us all? I thought that it was rather interesting and was wondering what you thought about it?

Sorry, I did not watch it actually, But since I value you as a friend, and you proposed your question in that manner, and expressed you thought it was a good video...I promise I will watch it and give you my opinions....
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2012 10:40 pm
@reasoning logic,
BTW logic, you have a P.M. from me....
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 06:48 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Why haven't you responded about the short video that Procrustes shared with us all? I thought that it was rather interesting and was wondering what you thought about it?

I think the video is rather eccentric, and melodramatic to say the least....

I have one question to anyone who feels the same way that the people in this video do...

In your opinion, despite everything the Bible says, by prophets, prophetess etc...Do you believe that Jesus Christ is a bad thing for humanity? or a good thing??? Do you believe that it is possible that the Bible is a guide, and the true tests of reliance in knowing God himself?? What do you have to say about people who follow a False Mythological being in Christ...Or an evil God that is portrayed in the Bible (as some would believe) and doing good, positive, beneficial things??

And likewise, are any of these evil deeds being carried out in today's age?? So why then harp about how the Bible says them, if there not in fact done?? Did it ever occur to ones who follow this video, that all those positions of pain and death, may have been tests for Holy ones to pass and differentiate between good and bad?? If you can't validate the good from the Bible, (in an atheist view) Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection, How could you validate that this evil ever took place??? To say to yourself as an atheist, that the evil is immoral, crude, evil, unjust, wicked etc..( I don't remember exactly how he worded them all) then whether your willing to admit this or not, you overtly admit to accepting Christ is a good thing...and then I say, no one knows for certain if these evils were ever done...There not being done today, So it seems to me they were substitutional parables with which were tests for the Godly, and ungodly to discern between truth and evil, right and wrong, good or bad etc...

That is and are my opinions...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 07:24 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
This young lady seems to have a logical point of view.

Sorry I could not bare all that much through the portrayal of Split-personalities from one side of her to the next....

But what I would say to her is, Again with this video, (since atheists use proof or evidence) What makes her so certain that what she says can and will ever be validated?? Does she believe that Hitler actually knew God? Does she know for certain that we evolved from Chimp-like animals?? Does she know for certain that Einstein's theory's are right for certain?? Does she know for certain that it is God who causes nations to fight, apposed to atheism countries?? What would she say if 1000 yrs from now atheism is worse, and Christianity, and other religious are about the same...What would that say or prove to certainty for her and believers??

etc...at the end of the day, I see it as with religion you need faith...and faith alone you will find God, supporting the Bible, but it can't be validated for certainty, as each is his or her own, but you will find what your looking for....and if your intent of trying to look for evidence to support everything, and validate things for certainty, it can't be done, but done enough for your own satisfaction...

So in other words to each his or her own, and whatever you look for/against is what you will see...nothing more, or less...
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 07:25 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is a bad thing for humanity, or a good thing]/quote]

i have no problem with the basic philosophy of jesus, just cut all the fairytale heaven eternal life crap

XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 07:33 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
And likewise, are any of these evil deeds being carried out in today's age?? So why then harp about how the Bible says them, if there not in fact done?? Did it ever occur to ones who follow this video, that all those positions of pain and death, may have been tests for Holy ones to pass and differentiate between good and bad??

And yes with this post, I understand that evil is still done in "suposivly" God's name...but are the acts portrayed in the Bible as evil being done? and likewise do atheists not say there for progressing humanity, but yet some do evil, because to them, their life is progressing humanity??

0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 07:38 am
@djjd62,
Quote:
i have no problem with the basic philosophy of jesus, just cut all the fairytale heaven eternal life crap

What do you believe entails the philosophy of Christ?, for he is the one who "supposivly" said eternal life exists, and that there is no way to find it except through me....Why do you believe such fabrications would exist?, or people would be clever enough to conjur up these things if Christ did not speak of them himself?? and in conjunction to his (philosophy)? (as you worded it)
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 08:04 am
@reasoning logic,
And just so your aware logic, and this isn't to boast but I actually have a question I am going to pose at the end....

When I was in the 6th grade, I was forced to study about the theory of evolution...I was taught about Person vs person, person vs conflict, and person vs nature etc...I was also taught about the evolving from these chimp like animals...I may be wrong on the spelling, and the order, but it is for you to associate yourselves with my experiences....I learned about the 5 or 6 various stages with Homoerectus, Astrolopithicus, Neanderthal, Homo Sapien, Homo Sapien Sapien etc...and probably a few more I can not remember today...and at the time I was angry because I felt it was bogus I had to learn this information...and it has nothing to do with being brainwashed, and everything to do with my own personal conscience, at a very tender age....So my question is this, If people are truly offended with God being in the Pledge of allegiance....and wish to have God taken out of schools, and now evolution to be taught...Do you believe it is a fair argument to say to a teacher you do not wish to learn this type of information as you truly don't embrace it, and it offends your religious beliefs??? Is it fair for people in the future in your views to say they are offended that evolution is being taught if they embrace a Deity??
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 08:43 am
@Krumple,
Quote:
Sure that is a possibility. I however; don't require a group. It's not all that hard and don't need a group to pull it off.

Hey Krumple, not to pick apart your flaws, as I have many myself, but I am interested in a question I will pose at the end...

Are you not the same person who in another thread debated with myself, and Vikorr, that forcing your views is the ONLY way to get someone to accept them?

I will link these posts if needed...

If that is the case how are you any different than that of the Westboro baptist loonies out there? are they not forcing their views on people??

Hint: because your on the opposite end of the spectrum does not mean that forcing views is exceptible...How do we know that if you were given violence to force your views on people you wouldn't??
0 Replies
 
RexDraconis111
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:08 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
First off, glad I can be a breath of fresh air.

Quote:
Now, out of curiosity, What makes you believe they have not intervened? and what makes you believe that they don't care?? Why do you believe the story of Jesus is untrue??


As far as the powers-that-be intervening, they very well might have early on. And they might even be doing so today, with a few people here and there. However, it seems to me that they are not inclined to intervene on a large scale.

As far as the powers-that-be not caring goes, this is my take: There is so much strife and problems in this world. Now that tells me two things, neither of which are particularly good. Either A- they really don't care, or lost interest, or wrote us off as a lost cause, or something. Or B- they have one really messed up sense of humor, stepping in in a small way when they see fit.

With the story of Jesus, this is my take. Let me start by saying that I seem to recall you making a post saying something to the effect of the bible not supposed to be taken as seriously as some people take it. My thoughts are that the bible was written by man decades after the events allegedly happened. Man is fallible, and something could have been misread, misheard, misinterpreted, etc down the line. If you've ever played the game Telephone as a kid, where one kid says something to the kid next to him and has it passed on until it gets back to the first kid and is completely wrong, you'll probably find that this is a decent analogy here. Within five tellings you can go from "I ate a can of worms" to "I hate candied words" or something like that. Point is, something could have been misheard, meaning the bible (to me at least) is BS. It's a book written by fallible man.

However, I will admit that for all I know, there very well could have been a man named Jesus back then who tried to spread the word of peace, love, mercy, acceptance, good will toward men, and all that, and even recruited like-minded people to help him. As far as him being a miracle-worker and having all the gifts he supposedly had, I don't take much stock in it because it was written in a book by man after decades of tellings and retellings.

In that respect, It's kinda like Scientology: L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer who probably made up Scientology as a massive joke to see how many idiots he could snow, but died before he could say "Fooled you!" I'm not saying the bible or Christianity is a joke, I'm only saying that I only take it at face-value.

And besides, there are too many bad people who try to justify their evil actions and thoughts and feelings by quoting the bible and saying that they do it in God's name. Now I can take your words about those people not truly knowing God and accept them because in my opinion, you're absolutely right. But not everyone can, and I'd rather not be lumped in with the idiots like all the other honest and good Christians that don't deserve that kind of proverbial stone-throwing.

Therefore, I don't align myself with any organized religion. There are too many fanatics who don't understand the basic message that seems to permeate all major religions, and I'd rather not associate or be associated with that crowd.

Now, I know that what I personally believe isn't much of an issue, but I'm comfortable enough with it that I don't have a problem sharing it, whether I get ridiculed for it or not. I believe there's at least one being of a higher power than us, who may or may not care what we do with the planet and ourselves. And that there is an afterlife that's quality is based on the moral quality of your overall life.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:35 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Thank you for that...and I will take it to heart...

But just a quick question, as I think it pertains to this topic, and atheism in general....(this is meant for everyone and not solely you Chights)

What is your purpose in being here?? (if you do not wish to answer I am fine with that) My purpose is to learn as well as spread the words of God. If your convinced your right, then why do you debate about Christianity??? Is it to stronger convince yourselves of atheism? What higher purpose do you think your doing by coming on here and purposely trying to debate with someone who has a personal innate purpose? (myself, to spread God's words) What do you hope to accomplish?? Just curious, and all reply's are welcome, as I am interested in hearing this...
Do I need to have a purpose in being here? If I had to claim a purpose for being here then I would say for my own entertainment. I enjoy discussing religion and other philosophical topics. I've learned a great deal since I have been here so really it's more about expanding my understand through interaction with others. I live in the bible belt and there aren't really that many bright or willing people that I can speak with regarding these topics. As a side bonus I like to think that I'm also promoting reason, logic, and understanding while I am here. Unfortunately for those which seem to require it most generally refuse it with the most vigor.

As far as you, you say that one of the reasons that you're here is to learn, what is it you expect to learn exactly?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Atheism - Discussion by littlek
The tolerant atheist - Discussion by Tuna
Another day when there is no God - Discussion by edgarblythe
church of atheism - Discussion by daredevil
Can An Atheist Have A Soul? - Discussion by spiritual anrkst
THE MAGIC BUS COMES TO CANADA - Discussion by Setanta
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 07/09/2025 at 04:37:14