Question to those who do or do not doubt Christianity

Again that is not what I did to you, and if you still feel that way I apologize to you...sincerely

I opened the can of worms (and now deeply regret) because based on what a couple have said, I was under the impression that this is how atheists felt...and again I ask, just out of curiosity what is the difference between asking for a sign, and saying if you see evidence you'll embrace a God??

So then there is no problems of hate then is there? and I was correct that we don't have hate problems?? I did not hate you even if we were fighting, and I think by the way you specifically resolved the situation, I presume you did not hate me, am I wrong??

I think I have already taken steps to improve the maturity level, now do you suppose you could lend this post to some others who are not taking in the maturity level expectations up?? Or does and is this post directly only toward myself?? Since it requires 2 people to fight...

Good points, and I will take them to heart, I would only ask...in the future you address all party's that this pertains to...Or again just out of curiosity, Do you believe I am the only one guilty of these actions?? (Immaturity etc...)

I opened the can of worms (and now deeply regret) because based on what a couple have said, I was under the impression that this is how atheists felt...My fault!! and again I ask, just out of curiosity what is the difference between asking for a sign, and saying if you see evidence you'll embrace a God??

Do you think this is wise to do??

This is indeed not a good path to go down at all. I can perceive it, and I know you can as well...You asked me to raise the maturity, which I took accountability for, and even said I deeply regret going down that path...Now your contradicting yourself, by saying...(and this is not to offend you, but you said for others to point out your flaws) ( I would consider this a flaw, and believe, making you aware is a beneficial thing to do, indeed) your contradicting yourself, because you last said I should not open cans of worms, and should raise the maturity, but then said you were going to in fact do the same thing in response...Are you not held accountable under your own views? Why would anyone take you seriously, about the worms, and maturity, if you don't do it yourself, and lead by example?...

I can already perceive this can-of-worms opening has "majority wise" mostly to do with me...If that is the case, and you wish to explain your problems, than if it has to do with me. Since I can not stop you, and your free to do as you please, I am asking you sincerely, ahead of time, just in case, to have these discussions through Private Messages...as I do not wish to do this again, I value your incite, and do not wish to go down these types of paths again. or multiple times...For I don't think anything good will come of it....

That's just my perspective, and your free to do and say what you wish....But I am honestly asking you to stand down from this stance...So that we will all grow maturity wise, and knowledge, wisdom etc...all those things you listed...

However, If your truly intent on opening the can-of-worms after this post...If it pertains to me....I would ask that you please respect the fact I asked you in advance to do it with me via P.M. and I will answer your questions, and it does not drag other people into it, nor does it waste time and space on this thread...

Ty, the choice is yours....

Craig wrote:

.I don't ask for signs because all of the "signs" that have been claimed, all of them have been falsified or at least not proven.

You do not have to ask for a sign because when you see the one I asked for you will not have any further disbelief in God.

Do I need to have a purpose in being here? If I had to claim a purpose for being here then I would say for my own entertainment. I enjoy discussing religion and other philosophical topics. I've learned a great deal since I have been here so really it's more about expanding my understand through interaction with others. I live in the bible belt and there aren't really that many bright or willing people that I can speak with regarding these topics. As a side bonus I like to think that I'm also promoting reason, logic, and understanding while I am here. Unfortunately for those which seem to require it most generally refuse it with the most vigor.

As far as you, you say that one of the reasons that you're here is to learn, what is it you expect to learn exactly?

As far as the powers-that-be intervening, they very well might have early on. And they might even be doing so today, with a few people here and there. However, it seems to me that they are not inclined to intervene on a large scale.

As far as the powers-that-be not caring goes, this is my take: There is so much strife and problems in this world. Now that tells me two things, neither of which are particularly good. Either A- they really don't care, or lost interest, or wrote us off as a lost cause, or something. Or B- they have one really messed up sense of humor, stepping in in a small way when they see fit.

With the story of Jesus, this is my take. Let me start by saying that I seem to recall you making a post saying something to the effect of the bible not supposed to be taken as seriously as some people take it. My thoughts are that the bible was written by man decades after the events allegedly happened. Man is fallible, and something could have been misread, misheard, misinterpreted, etc down the line. If you've ever played the game Telephone as a kid, where one kid says something to the kid next to him and has it passed on until it gets back to the first kid and is completely wrong, you'll probably find that this is a decent analogy here. Within five tellings you can go from "I ate a can of worms" to "I hate candied words" or something like that. Point is, something could have been misheard, meaning the bible (to me at least) is BS. It's a book written by fallible man.

However, I will admit that for all I know, there very well could have been a man named Jesus back then who tried to spread the word of peace, love, mercy, acceptance, good will toward men, and all that, and even recruited like-minded people to help him. As far as him being a miracle-worker and having all the gifts he supposedly had, I don't take much stock in it because it was written in a book by man after decades of tellings and retellings.

In that respect, It's kinda like Scientology: L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer who probably made up Scientology as a massive joke to see how many idiots he could snow, but died before he could say "Fooled you!" I'm not saying the bible or Christianity is a joke, I'm only saying that I only take it at face-value.

And besides, there are too many bad people who try to justify their evil actions and thoughts and feelings by quoting the bible and saying that they do it in God's name. Now I can take your words about those people not truly knowing God and accept them because in my opinion, you're absolutely right. But not everyone can, and I'd rather not be lumped in with the idiots like all the other honest and good Christians that don't deserve that kind of proverbial stone-throwing.

Therefore, I don't align myself with any organized religion. There are too many fanatics who don't understand the basic message that seems to permeate all major religions, and I'd rather not associate or be associated with that crowd.

Now, I know that what I personally believe isn't much of an issue, but I'm comfortable enough with it that I don't have a problem sharing it, whether I get ridiculed for it or not. I believe there's at least one being of a higher power than us, who may or may not care what we do with the planet and ourselves. And that there is an afterlife that's quality is based on the moral quality of your overall life.

If they can do it in a small scale, you do not believe it is possible in a large scale??

I don't believe either of these 2 are happening personally...I believe they do care, but it's more about giving us freedom...and I believe that God (if he exists) knows exactly what is happening, and is always around...Problem is is that I think people need to embrace the small steps in order to see or understand the bigger ones...

But why do you believe that Jesus Christ was a fallible man as well? If you take small steps to believe he or a God is ultimately there??

But this book, which goes along with (at least a little) your views of a man named Jesus existed. states that Prophets have the spirit of God in them, and God will correct their errors, maybe for all we know it has not happened yet....I do believe Jesus worked Miracles, as I have witnessed a few of them myself, and there is no way for me to show, validate them...but I can not deny they happened...Once you get the first steps down, your eyes are opened to Bigger and better things, is all I can say...

How would Jesus need to show you that it is not the same as what you explained as a deceptive belief/lack of belief??

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And besides, there are too many bad people who try to justify their evil actions and thoughts and feelings by quoting the bible and saying that they do it in God's name. Now I can take your words about those people not truly knowing God and accept them because in my opinion, you're absolutely right. But not everyone can, and I'd rather not be lumped in with the idiots like all the other honest and good Christians that don't deserve that kind of proverbial stone-throwing.

So then do not, Go out, and build your own beliefs based on your own experiences, like I am doing, and just like Saint Paul did....

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Therefore, I don't align myself with any organized religion. There are too many fanatics who don't understand the basic message that seems to permeate all major religions, and I'd rather not associate or be associated with that crowd.

You do not have to, as long as that inner flame is always in you, you can and will be saved if you choose to be....

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Now, I know that what I personally believe isn't much of an issue, but I'm comfortable enough with it that I don't have a problem sharing it, whether I get ridiculed for it or not. I believe there's at least one being of a higher power than us, who may or may not care what we do with the planet and ourselves. And that there is an afterlife that's quality is based on the moral quality of your overall life.

I agree, and I think that you have enough spark in you, to see this place one day...You do not have to be certain in order to believe...If you have enough doubt, than that means you already feel there is reasons to doubt it...or reasons that it may exist...

You know, It is actually very comforting to know that a complete stranger who doesn't know me, believes that I can have a good afterlife (be saved and go to Heaven, if that is indeed the case) based on nothing but hearing my beliefs and reasons for them. And if you are indeed a Prophet and Christianity is indeed the right path, as you claim, then it's even more comforting to know this. You, sir, have given me a reason to believe in the path I walk, wherever that may lead. I wish you a wonderful day.

Well, if they're as powerful as everyone wants to think, then of course it's possible, It just seems to me that they don't want to do it.

Okay, the freedom aspect, I can get. As far as the powers-that-be knowing what's happening, they almost certainly do and are still keeping watch, even if we're a failed experiment as of late.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the bible, Jesus, while the alleged son of God, was raised as a human. No human is perfect, and even if Jesus was God's son, he still could have picked up a few human "imperfections". Now, If I am indeed wrong, I will find out eventually in a way that I can't possibly deny it, whether I die first and get my questions answered then, or Jesus himself comes down and flicks me in the forehead and grants me the knowledge I seek.

I can only form conclusions based on my experiences. Since I have not experienced what you claim to have experienced, I have formed different conclusions than you have. And again, I may be wrong. There is still a lot in this universe that I don't understand.

If Jesus is the Messiah and Savior and God in the flesh, He should be able to do to me what you say he has done to you. To prove himself to me, if he deemed it necessary, I would expect him to show me what he showed you in a way that I couldn't possibly doubt. And if he's been paying attention, or if he is capable of knowing my soul, he'll know what he needs to show me to remove my doubt.

Very simple, and sweet to the point, No you do not have to have any specific purpose of being here, and your actions speak louder than any words you could portray...I already understand the reasons your here, and I say keep on going with your head up, and a smile on your face, your doing good things indeed...and if a God exists, he is truly taking notice of this in fact portraying of light you in fact have in you!!!

As far as this question, my goal is to learn as much about atheism as I can, from personal perspectives, as well as give my side from a genuine Christian perspective...As far as being specific, I really can't, all I can say is that I wish in understanding atheism more, I was constantly around people like yourself, who make it easy, and clear what the purposes of "progressing humanity" are...

I would just like to say very easily and precisly, and directly to the point...the way you explained the things you said to me, You said them flawlessly in my book....and beautifully...I may have been implying something you did not wish to be called...in saying your excepting my views...But what I meant by saying that is that I really do truly value you as a friend...If there is anything that you would like me to specifically answer, then please post them again and I will answer them right away for you...

This has nothing to do with you, well it sort of does but indirectly does not...I only wish that a few others on here had, the wisdom, incite, and perspectives of valuing humanity similar to the way you carry yourself...it speaks in volumes...I do not forsee future problems so if you want to discuss them here I am open to that!! have a blessed day my friend...and I mean that from my perspective, as in a marvelous day!!

P.S. you have seemed to learn and use the wisdom in the fact that you understand it's not what you say but how you say it...Like I said, I wish others approached the situations similar to the way you seem to grasp them indeed...It clearly speaks volumes to me personally about how much you truly do care about "progressing humanity" and even if we disagree at times, I can truly say that I find that highly admirable indeed!

I don't believe either of these 2 are happening personally...I believe they do care, but it's more about giving us freedom...and I believe that God (if he exists) knows exactly what is happening, and is always around...Problem is is that I think people need to embrace the small steps in order to see or understand the bigger ones...

And in case any of you out there are curiously thinking why did I not start my time on this website in this manner, or sooner than now?? I guess in all honesty, all I needed was a little spark back from another to get me going...

You understand my pursuit of entertainment? Razz You also keep meantioning a "portrayal of light", based on the context of the sentence it seems to me that you are insinuating that a "portrayal of light" equates to morality?

I don't think that I do "good" things, I simply think that I am a moral (based on secular morality) person and simply do "things". I think that I do what every able person should already be doing normally.

I try to push for a world where people don't have to starve or war, where people don't have to fear or deceive. A world where people don't hinder or deny our scientific progress as a race due to a fictional belief in a magical sky daddy. A world where people don't have to fight for basic and equal rights due to irrational hatred and bigotry...and so on.

You can't really learn much more about atheism except that it's just the idea that god's don't exist. You can however discuss what atheists choose to believe in outside of what religion teaches, I would be up for that!

Thank you for the compliment but unfortunately as far as you trying to correct the meaning behind your previous statement, I'm afraid I simply don't understand. In this post you revise your previous statement about my accepting your views then alter the meaning of that statement to imply that you value me as a friend. I just can't connect the two vastly different meanings, perhaps it's just an incomplete thought?

I find that I do that sometimes as well because I'm always doing posts in small segments over long periods of time since I do this in my down time at work mostly. As far as what I would like to know, in order to continue in a discussion specifically about your faith, I suppose that I would like a complete outline of what you specifically believe and the more detail the better. I would really like to get a complete understanding of all the specific details of what you believe in. So far in our discussions I've gone by what it says in the bible and what a majority of Christians believe but your faith seems to differ from that. Well you don't have to do a complete specific outline of everything, you can pick specific topic that you like and go over that in detail if you would prefer. We could also discuss something that is completely different as well.

Thank you again for the compliment. As far as when you say that you would like a few others were more like me, do you specifically have people in mind (not that I'm asking names) or is that a general statement? You may send me a pm on this if you would prefer.

I approach situations in the manner that I do because of my interactions and learning to understand others. If you interact with people enough and are receptive to how they interact with you and others then you can begin to think and perceive as they do. A good Christian example that you might relate to would be the famous "what would Jesus do" saying/slogan. I personally like the slogan "what would Eragon do" since I like those books better...