American girl in Italy, 60 years later

I can not climb to your level of hysteria, Setanta.

Continuing to call it hysteria will not make it so, Wandel. Don't mistake contempt for emotion. That is one of the most common, and most feeble of tactics online. Accuse your intelocutor of an unbridled emotional response, implying that yours is the expression of sweet, calm reason. It's childish and unconvincing. Your remark was thoughtless and insulting, and you're trying everything you can to weasel out of the responsibility for that. Now you're reduced to accusing those who are accusing you of being hysterical.

No hysteria, Bubba, just the relentless intention to point out how shitty and patronizing your remark was.

Contempt is an emotion and it is way out of proportion to what I said. That is why I am relentless about pointing out your hysteria.

This is the first definition for contempt which appeared in a web search:

The feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.

Call that emotion if you like, it doesn't rise to the level of hysteria. You must be terribly impressed with your own significance. You're a legend in your own mind.

When the contempt is inappropriate it rises to the level of hysteria.

You can't know that these are hysterics.

Sorry, hysterics is too lukewarm a description.

You can't know that.

The contempt was appropriate. The only hysteria here is your hysterical refusal to admit you were wrong.

You're cute when you're hysterical.

You, however, are ugly when you hysterically refuse to admit you were wrong.

do you need a hug? i do.

Yeah, i'm sure you do. However, the little dogs and i just had a long walk, so i'm in good shape. You . . . not so much.

That was fun, yesterday. We should do it again sometime.

That's a projection. We know from the woman herself that this is not what happened. Indeed she says she has been fighting your interpretation for 60 years.


As to whether the photo was staged, that's true as far as the men being at that street corner at that time. According to a catalogue I bought in an exhibition this photo was in, there was a first snapshot in which the men looked into Sorkin's camera. Sorkin didn't like that, so she told Ninalee Craig to turn around and do the walk again, an told the men to look at Craig, not into the cameral. So the photo wasn't staged, except the part where the Italian guys ogling the American girl. So the part everybody talks about was staged. Craig only talks about her repeating the walk, but doesn't mention Orkin rearranging the guy's looks---appropriately so, as it made no difference to her---but if you Google for " "American girl in Italy" staged", you find several articles confirming it.

The creep factor of this picture comes from projections of modern American women. It has no basis in what the Italian guys did in reality, nor in what the "victim" of the looks actually perceived at that time.

Those same cocksure feelings have probably landed more than a few innocents in jail.

Perhaps I should add that the creep factor is a projection as far as this particular photograph is concerned. Elsewhere, in the real world, looks like these do happen, and often they do reflect creepy intentions.

That goes without saying, Thomas. But I'm glad that you said it.

Staged or not, I think we project our own life experiences onto the interpretation. As a woman, especially when I was in my teens and 20's, being leered at made me feel uncomfortable and soiled. It was not flattering or fun. Flattering is when a guy you are attracted to gives you a little smile, leering from strange men on the street is just creepy and sometimes scary. I don't think all men really get this, but the ones who do are not the ones doing the public drooling and bug-eyed stares. I assume even the worst offenders think they are being harmless, or charming and might even hope the woman might notice them in a positive way. However, this type of harassment is also a way to control women and make them feel vulnerable, thus making even the wimpy man feel powerful. Most offending men would never take it to the next level of physically confronting a woman, but, as most women can tell you, there are men who do take it to the next level. There are men who start with a leer, next make some rude comment and then go even further by following you or trying to step in front of you. A woman never knows where these leers will lead and thus we cringe and go on the defensive when we see an image like this.

Well said.