@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:
Only the first couple of paras and then saw Soz's link to the 2003 thread and Craven's unexpected take on it as a slander against Italy and men in general...
I see now Chai did use the scared shitless phrase - like I said I think that's an exaggeration - but that woman does not appear comfortable to my eyes. I know it was staged and she was under no threat - I'm talking visual impact of the image without context - that's all I've ever been talking about.
Nighty night!
Craven's take on the other thread is also at odds with the photographer's intent.
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
It occurred to me that Chai and Arella's reactions may be connected to unfortunate personal experiences in their own past. I do not want to devalue their honest personal feelings.
Did it occur to you that it may not be connected to personal experience?
Although that would be an overstatement, as I don't believe there is a woman alive who hasn't experienced something negative in this way.
I think it's creepy, and i think the guys in the photo are a bunch of creeps. She may not be frightened, but no one need try to bullshit me that she's enjoying the experience.
I think what Craig is enjoying is the attention she's getting now. It is a question of being staged, too, because as she walked down that street, she knew the photographer, at least, could come to her aid if things got out of hand. What a load of bullshit.
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:
Again it's my personal reaction but I find that remark condescending. I actually think the reverse is true, that a number of posters here are in denial of the implicit creepiness of that photo. I have to say in my case I had never seen this photo before (I know now it's iconic in the US, but I have lived my life somewhere very else).
My reaction that it is creepy was my first reaction the first time I had ever seen it without reading the background - perhaps it's harder for people who have history with the picture to see anything other than a celebration of american femininity triumphing over mediterranean lotharios. Beats me.
But look at her face without context and tell me she is happy and carefree.
One more time, look closely....
Scared shitless?
That what I call it, you may call it scared stiff. Her entire body and face certainly are being held that way.
Eye contact avoidance, keeping expression to a minimum but nonetheless face does not look relaxed.
Clutching of her shawl over her body to minimize viewing.
There is someone close to her making a comment. She's avoiding turning her head in that way. Pretending she doesn't hear or see. Trying not to encourage him further.
Honestly, I'd like to get the impression of other women here, who have not yet posted.
Do any women see this model as relaxed, enjoying the carefree wolf whistles, etc?
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:It occurred to me that Chai and Arella's reactions may be connected to unfortunate personal experiences in their own past. I do not want to devalue their honest personal feelings.
That was a really shitty, patronizing thing to have said. Congratulations, Bubba . . .
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I think what Craig is enjoying is the attention she's getting now. It is a question of being staged, too, because as she walked down that street, she knew the photographer, at least, could come to her aid if things got out of hand. What a load of bullshit.
Thank you set.
I wanted to say something just like this, but I couldn't think of how to phrase it where I wasn't going to get the responses of "you don't know that"
Moving on...On the other related thread, someone there said something about men being sexually harrassed. I'm in total agreement with that. While men may say they enjoy and revel in women turning the tables, or making comments, oogling, etc etc. But honestly, men don't have as much experience as to the frequency. At some point, it would get tiresome. No, seriously, it would.
I know I'm opeing myself up for jokes, stupid riduclule, but eventually it would get old.
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
wandeljw wrote:It occurred to me that Chai and Arella's reactions may be connected to unfortunate personal experiences in their own past. I do not want to devalue their honest personal feelings.
That was a really shitty, patronizing thing to have said. Congratulations, Bubba . . .
That's just wandel's way of waffling, not having an opinion one way or another, covering all bases without really saying anything.
I've grown used to it.
I once complained to my supervisor (who was a woman) about harrassment by another woman at work. That woman would say she knew this bookstore i'd really love, and that we should go there sometime. She didn't tell me where the bookstore was, just that she was sure i'd enjoy it and that she'd take me there if i liked. She would suggest a great restaurant she knew, and say that we should go there sometime. As i failed to respond to these invitations, she began saying she'd pay her own way, and eventually even offering to treat. I'd come into the office to do deliveries (one of my particular jobs, because it often took staff into questionable or even dangerous neighborhoods), only to find that she's sent the student worker/volunteer out to do it--a totally irresponsible move, the only result of which that i could see was that it would leave the two of us in the office. She would frequently ask me if i were dating anyone in particular, and what i planned for the weekend, or what i had done the previous weekend.
I eventually went to my supervisor, who at first tended to think i was imagining things, but she was drawn up short when she learned that this woman had sent our student worker, a 19 year old girl, into Sullivant Gardens, accounted one of the roughest neighborhoods in the city. That she wouldn't abide. As i explained in detail what had been going on, she finally agreed that it was harrassment.
The reaction was as bad as the harrassment. Now the woman was constantly sneering at me, telling me i wasn't as "hot" as i must have thought i was, that she didn't and never had found me attractive, that she was just trying to be nice to me as i was so obviously pathetic. I eventually asked my supervisor to schedule me either for the overnight shift or the day shift, to minimize my exposure to the woman.
The experience didn't necessarily humiliate me, but the constant unwanted attention and suggestions were a growing strain. After she had been warned off by my supervisor, she damned sure said everything she could think of in an attempt to humiliate me.
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
wandeljw wrote:It occurred to me that Chai and Arella's reactions may be connected to unfortunate personal experiences in their own past. I do not want to devalue their honest personal feelings.
That was a really shitty, patronizing thing to have said. Congratulations, Bubba . . .
That's just wandel's way of waffling, not having an opinion one way or another, covering all bases without really saying anything.
I've grown used to it.
Sorry. I honestly only wanted to show consideration for your feelings.
Hingehead and I agree that your "scared shitless" remark is an exaggeration.
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
It occurred to me that Chai and Arella's reactions may be connected to unfortunate personal experiences in their own past. I do not want to devalue their honest personal feelings.
I can't speak for Chai but what the heck does that have to do with me thinking the look on her face is not one of joy? Her eyes are not focused straight ahead in confidence. The look on her face to me says a lot of apprehension. But, it's just my opinion.
Sorry. I only intended to show consideration for your feelings.
"Look of joy" is an exaggeration. My earlier post followed your previous "scared to death" interpretation which I believe is also an exaggeration.
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
wandeljw wrote:It occurred to me that Chai and Arella's reactions may be connected to unfortunate personal experiences in their own past. I do not want to devalue their honest personal feelings.
That was a really shitty, patronizing thing to have said. Congratulations, Bubba . . .
Congratulations. A useless remark from you to ingratiate yourself with Chai.
@wandeljw,
Your remark suggested that those two women are somehow defective due to personal experiences, and therefore cannot exercise a reasonable judgment. As for sucking up to Chai, i'm sure she's laughing at that one as much as i am.
But, sure, Bubba, whatever you feel can excuse your crass, offensive remark.
@Setanta,
- Crass offensive remarks -
Setanta/Michael Savage
WandelJW/Mother Teresa
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Your remark suggested that those two women are somehow defective due to personal experiences, and therefore cannot exercise a reasonable judgment. As for sucking up to Chai, i'm sure she's laughing at that one as much as i am.
But, sure, Bubba, whatever you feel can excuse your crass, offensive remark.
My "sucking up to Chai" remark was intended to be ridiculous. It mirrors the ridiculousness of your original comment.
@chai2,
How does this woman's expression mean anything? She is an actress playing a part.
The purpose was to create a photograph to make a political point. She knew what she was doing and since she was doing it at a photographer's instruction she knew she was being photographed.
This picture is a work of art that was create to make a political point. This is not a factual source.
