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Who is the most persecuted religion?

 
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -3  
Sun 1 May, 2022 06:09 pm
@Theo202,
Predominantly Muslim Albanians is a weasel word. The Albanians saved them.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Albania_confessional_map_with_regions_circa_1900.PNG

While Albania may be Muslim majority, it kinda depends on the region.
https://www.frosina.org/more-about-how-albania-saved-jews-during-the-holocaust/
Quote:
The names of the courageous Muslim and Christian Albanians who saved the Jews are honored as “Righteous Among the Nations” at Yad Vashem in Jerusalem and are inscribed on the Rescuers Wall at the U.S. Holocaust


Meanwhile, here's what wikipedia says.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
Quote:
In public and private, Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler made warm statements about Islam as a religion and political ideology, describing it as a more disciplined, militaristic, political, and practical form of religion than Christianity, and commending what they perceived to be Muhammad's skill in politics and military leadership. However, the official Nazi racial ideology also considered Arabs and North Africans to be racially inferior to Germans, a sentiment echoed by Hitler and other Nazi leaders to deprecate them.


It then discusses both Islamic support and opposition to Jewish persecution.

In opposition, they emphasize that the Muslims were mostly anti-Axis. But in opposition, they mention North Africa, Iraq, and "Palestine." As well as Arabs in Germany and Italy.

Quote:
Back in the summer of 1940 and again in February 1941, al-Husseini submitted to the Nazi German Government a draft declaration of German-Arab cooperation, containing a clause:

"Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy."


Hmmmm, I wonder how they considered it solved?

Also, not only was the gold symbol the Germans copied from Muslims, but the Muslims also emulated the Germans.
Quote:
The Syrian Social Nationalist Party (SSNP) adopted styles of fascism. Its emblem, the red hurricane, was taken from the Nazi swastika, leader Antoun Saadeh was known as al-za'im (the leader), and the party anthem was "Syria, Syria, über alles" sung to the same tune as the German national anthem. He founded the fascist SSNP with a program that Syrians were "a distinctive and naturally superior race."

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Mon 2 May, 2022 03:35 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
In 2021 alone, 360 million Christians were persecuted.

How do you determine the difference between deliberate religious persecution and different forms of ethnic strife, political repression, or economic insecurity?
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 2 May, 2022 04:13 am
@hightor,
Generally speaking, these restrictions (as published by "Open Doors" [that seems to be source of the data]) are not specifically against Christians, but indicate a social milieu in which other religious communities as well as non-religious associations are affected in a comparable way.

The two large churches in Germany (Catholic and Evangelical Church of Germany) consider the number of persecuted Christians (now around 360 million) to be unreliable because it cannot be verified.
However, this figure would be more or less comprehensible if one were also prepared to describe discrimination as "persecution".
To explain the broad understanding of the term "persecution", Open Doors (Germany) refers, among other things, to the EU Directive 2004/83/EC[25]* as well as generally to the fact that there is no (legal) definition of the term.

*COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 2004/83/EC
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -3  
Mon 2 May, 2022 06:02 am
@hightor,
I don't.

I don't consider Hitler's gas chambers any different from scores of religious cleansing campaigns against a single religion. Because you don't in one year kill 360 million Christians by accident.

This is wicked anti-Christian government sentiment, this is religions acting out of jealousy/territorial sentiment (or in the case of places like Japan or India, nationalism), and this is racial/class differences between adherents of Christianity and say the Church of Euthanasia.

At the end of the day, the deaths of 60 Times the Holocaust in One Year seems to be as deliberate as a gas chamber. In fact, it should be sufficient to prove to you that even if there is not a God, there is at least a devil, controlling massive amounts of people to have the same violent aim. Or as the Bible says, they use Antichrists as plural (sorry, religious movies, you all got it wrong).

And yes, governments can positively or negatively affect persecution of one religion.
https://www.electionforum.org/events-2/china-2021-historic-persecution-of-christians-is-skyrocketing-7-things-every-christian-should-know/
Some of this was happening in China, and Trump apparently put economic (or other) pressures on China not to persecute Christians and such. Biden doesn't give a rat's ass.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/open-doors-finds-60-rise-in-christians-killed-worldwide-in-2020.html
Some of it is Nigerian Muslims. And some is governments using COVID as an excuse. Starving? Sick? We won't feed or treat you unfil you convert.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 2 May, 2022 08:22 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:
I don't consider Hitler's gas chambers any different from scores of religious cleansing campaigns against a single religion. Because you don't in one year kill 360 million Christians by accident.
You're not seriously suggesting that 360 million Christians were killed in one year? I don't think anyone has posted such bullshit here before.
(According to the number published by Open Doors, 5,898 Christians were killed worldwide in 2021.)
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Mon 2 May, 2022 08:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
He's well past suggesting, Walter, he's into full blown lies.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -3  
Mon 2 May, 2022 08:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
This is what reports say.

But over the centuries probably well over 2 billion have been killed. Why do I think this? Because in the last decade over 900,000 have...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/christians-killed-martyred-900-000-last-decade-africa-boko-haram-al-shabaab-study-of-global-christianity-vatican-a7526226.html

Wait. Did I do the thing where you mess up orders of magnitude?
https://christianaction.org/our-say/record-breaking-360-million-christians-persecuted-in-2021/
No they say 360 million. But this is a Christian site, let's check another.

https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2022/01/20/watch-list-2022-over-360-million-christians-face-high-levels-of-persecution/
Oh I see, 360 million are living in areas where they face high persecution. Yes, it's easier for millions to be living in a country where being a Christian is a death crime than it is for millions to be rounded up and gassed. Nonetheless, the danger to this group is still quite real.

The more accurate quote of total Christians killed is about 70 million. That's over 2000 years though.
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/70-million-christians-martyred-faith-since-jesus-walked-earth/38403.htm
It's not comparable to what happened over only few years for the Jews, but nothing to sneeze at. Let's find Jewish statistics (unfortunately, Muslim statistics about died for their faith are often wrappen up in killed ppl for their faith, in the case of bombings, often at the same time).
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 2 May, 2022 08:59 am
@bulmabriefs144,
None of those websites reporting those "360 million" says they were killed.
And since even now in your very own quotes it says "persecuted".
(About 'persecuted' see my above post, about the number who were killed, see above, too.)


Oh, and it's "reports say": it's one single source, quoted by some others.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -3  
Mon 2 May, 2022 09:04 am
@bulmabriefs144,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons
Okay the Jews went from 5 million to 42k after Babylonian exile. 1.1 million slain at destruction of Temple 70 AD. 580k at Bar Kokhba revolt. Middle Ages they were mainly expelled alot, but 380k died in all this persecution. (Numerous extermination campaigns by Muslims that this article doesn't mention) They mention the Holocaust reducing the population from 17 million to 11 million (there's that 6 million again)
Can anyone total that, adding in numbers from pogroms in Europe and Russia, Muslim and Communist and other groups that killed Jews?

It seems like that number is harder to put together, as there's more centuries and the data is suppressed.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -3  
Mon 2 May, 2022 09:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
You're accusing me of being a liar, when actually I wad just sloppy.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 2 May, 2022 09:18 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

You're accusing me of being a liar, when actually I wad just sloppy.
Sloppy? By just adding 359.999 million dead people? And belittling the cruelties of the Holocaust?
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Mon 2 May, 2022 09:47 am
@bulmabriefs144,
What a dismal shitoad of sources: Independent.com, christianaction.org, breitbart.com, christiantoday.com ...

Packaging them doesn't make them any less hinkey.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -3  
Mon 2 May, 2022 01:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I never belittled the casualties of the Holocaust. 6 million is 6 million.

Certain other posters tried to say it was not nearly that many.
0 Replies
 
Theo202
 
  -2  
Mon 2 May, 2022 03:42 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Ad hom. Arguing with a fallacy is for losers.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Mon 2 May, 2022 04:07 pm
@Theo202,
Ad hom, yeah.

But you're kinda doing it too by calling him a loser, so all is cool.
Theo202
 
  -1  
Mon 2 May, 2022 06:56 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
No, an ad hom is part of an argument. I wasn't arguing with him.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Mon 2 May, 2022 07:40 pm
@Theo202,
Theo202 wrote:

Ad hom. Arguing with a fallacy is for losers.


If only you had a grasp of the concept.

It's not an ad hominem if it's true and impeaches you or your sources.

I weep for the future.
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Mon 2 May, 2022 10:01 pm
@BDV,
BDV wrote:

The acts of the Nazi's have made the jewish people and probably the entire world believe they are the most persecuted people in the planets history, but is is it true? why does christian persecution not make headlines! does the suffering and deaths of chistian make unworthy news? is it acceptable to kill and murder large portions of this community acceptable? does the massacre of 1.5 million christians in turkey have no meaning? Why do christians support Israel while they persecute the christian world?


Your question is a bit vague. However, the most persecuted group would be those who are not considered to be "equal" to those "in power". Power currupts and absolute power currupts absolutely.
In the United States of the 21st century, the most persecuted are preborn babies. As with the blacks of previous generation the excuse made for their persecution is that they are "less than human". The second most persecuted group are people with developmental disabilities. They are the most persecuted people in "abletoknow.com". This is because they are so often mocked.
The worst persecutors in America are the "progressives" with power. They threaten our 1st and 2nd Amendment rights. Europe is even further deteriorated by these "progressives".
Balance of power has been a wonderful concept in America. However, it is quickly being replaced with "Big Brother,"
Mrknowspeople
 
  -2  
Mon 2 May, 2022 10:16 pm
@BDV,
The most persecuted...well, the SEC would probably be the name of the agency who might investigate and refer for prosecution those who were involved with the biggest persecutor. They should give us all a report but then who would dare yell at them? You would have to enjoy the work of the persecutors.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Tue 3 May, 2022 07:30 am
@NealNealNeal,
Quote:
The second most persecuted group are people with developmental disabilities. They are the most persecuted people in "abletoknow.com". This is because they are so often mocked.


It seems almost like you're making a joke here.
 

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