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Who is the most persecuted religion?

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 07:14 am
@Theo202,
Quote:
Maybe there's someone here who gives a toss what you think, but I'm not that fool.


My, my, my - how "Christian" of you! But curiously, which fool are you?

On the serious note: You really need to come to Jesus.
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 11:34 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Preach the Gospel every day. If necessary, use words.

You three need to take this to heart.

Bobsal,
I must object to you including Bulma in your statement. Has he used language that would offend God?

Annointed speaks with great passion. Jesus spoke with passion to some of the Jewish leaders. Jesus also spoke truth to a Jewish leaders who was seeking Him (Nicodemus).
While I have disagreements with Annointed, it is refreshing to see his passion for God. He has the fear of God which is fantastic in this age of secular humanism.

I am not very acquainted with Theo, but I imagine that a similar thing can be said about him.

Almighty God had the humility to come down to earth and be tortured for our sons. There is every reason to be passionate about God.

NSFW (view)
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 01:13 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Even if we don't always agree.

I have a friend who currently isn't talking to me right now because I dared tell him that maybe Jesus used the East Gate, and the gate has been sealed (fulfilling Ezekiel's prophecy). And there isn't gonna be another Messiah. He's understandably pissed.
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 03:34 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Assuming that Annointed and Theo are Christians, why not allow the Sanctification process to continue in their lives?
Yes, Bulma is quite capable of defending himself!!! However, where has he acted improperly?
As for myself, I am totally dependent on Jesus in every way.
Theo202
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 03:47 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
My, my, my - how "Christian" of you!

No, I'll leave the vanity and hypocrisy with you, thanks. Only a dickhead would tell people he doesn't know what they need to to do.

And when he had found [Paul], he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts 11:26

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:20

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 15:7-9
Theo202
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 03:55 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Quote:
Almighty God had the humility to come down to earth and be tortured for our sons.

That doctrine originated with the descendants of those who killed the prophets, as if to justify their actions.

Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 23:31-33

And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
John 11:49-53

Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
1 Chronicles 16:22

Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Psalms 105:15
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 04:09 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

Even if we don't always agree.

I have a friend who currently isn't talking to me right now because I dared tell him that maybe Jesus used the East Gate, and the gate has been sealed (fulfilling Ezekiel's prophecy). And there isn't gonna be another Messiah. He's understandably pissed.


I believe that much of the disagreement results from you be post-millineal and me being pre-millineal. This is not a critical doctrinal difference.
I am secure spiritually. Not so much politically.
I believe that Europe has fallen apart morally and that the United States is not far behind. Our brothers and sisters in other parts of the world are heavily persecuted. I see the world as badly needing the return of Jesus.
Jesus said that only those who follow the narrow road will have salvation. This is a minority of people. How can Christians possibly bring about Christ's kingdom?
In books such as 1 Thess Paul talks about Jesus coming back. It does appear that the "rapture" will occur.
Most importantly, why throw out part of the book of Daniel and all of the book of , Revelation? I do not agree with your reasoning there.
I deeply respect you, Bulma.

bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 06:44 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Right.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 06:55 pm
@Theo202,
Whatever you say. But you might want to read more chapters and fewer verses.
Theo202
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 07:04 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Why, what point do you think I missed?
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 07:16 pm
@NealNealNeal,
It's someone on Discord, not necessarily you.

I'm actually probably a-millennial. I don't believe in a peaceful millennium. That's a trick from the devil. Life is inherently filled with challenges, good and evil are not absolute, and God wants us to live in a world that is imperfect to spiritually grow. But I am post-millennial insofar as I accept that Jesus established the kingdom of God.

I agree that Europe and the United States are in a bad place morally, but I think part of the mentality of end times is to whip people into a state of despair. As things get bad, we have an opportunity to repent and return to God. But end times don't allow this option. You missed the signs, you get burned up forever because you didn't get things perfectly.

I only abridged Daniel. I did throw out Revelation (more below), followed by Thessalonians (too much fundie crap), followed by Hebrews (there were a number of errors, but the clincher was that Anointed kept quoting it with regard to God supposedly saying "today" you have become my son, introducing adoptionist heresies). I took out Ezekiel, but eventually added it back in as a Cliff's Notes. I'm glad I did. I hated the signs and visions of Ezekiel, but my summary does it justice. No seeing the wheel within a wheel, instead I talked of the Temple, and Ezekiel's mission.

Revelation was unacceptable for the following reasons:
1. Jesus said "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (right after the famous John 3:16) So in direct contradiction, here God is sending his Son to condemn the world, not to save it.
2. Jesus never said he would come again to judge everyone, never made any prophesies that he would destroy people. You only see this in later writings, most notably the fundie ones that I sorta kinda tossed into the rubbish pile. Top of the list is this one.
3. You know what he did prophesy though? That many false versions of Christ would come, and there'd be all kinds of events like wars and such but we are not to be alarmed.
4. We already have reason enough to discount it, but that it was told to John by an angel immediately reminds us of Galatians 1. "6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!" And angel from heaven, huh?
5. Further, Jesus's personality doesn't match up. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do" vs killing fractions of Earth's entire population because they do some sin or the other.
5b. We have two writings to back up the idea that this is not some end times "Jesus had enough" thing, but an actual contradiction of Biblical teaching. The first is Romans 3:23 ("All have sinned and fallen short...") and Romans 8:38-39 ("For I am convinced that (nothing) will be able to separate us from the love of God...") If all of us have fallen short, who would be worthy enough to make it in this end times? Nobody! All of us would die horribly, because we have all failed to measure up to God's perfection. Likewise, if nothing can separate us, then all of us receive grace.
6. Mark Twain, Martin Luther, Jefferson, and the entire Orthodox church prior to Catholicism's forcing it as canon all rejected Revelation. Martin Luther is particularly enlightening:
Quote:
About this Book of the Revelation of John, I leave everyone free to hold his own opinions. I would not have anyone bound to my opinion or judgment. I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and it makes me consider it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic.

First and foremost, the apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear and plain words, as do Peter and Paul, and Christ in the gospel. For it befits the apostolic office to speak clearly of Christ and his deeds, without images and visions. Moreover there is no prophet in the Old Testament, to say nothing of the New, who deals so exclusively with visions and images. For myself, I think it approximates the Fourth Book of Esdras; I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it.

Moreover he seems to me to be going much too far when he commends his own book so highly (Revelation 22)—indeed, more than any of the other sacred books do, though they are much more important—and threatens that if anyone takes away anything from it, God will take away from him, etc. Again, they are supposed to be blessed who keep what is written in this book; and yet no one knows what that is, to say nothing of keeping it. This is just the same as if we did not have the book at all. And there are many far better books available for us to keep.

Many of the fathers also rejected this book a long time ago; although St. Jerome, to be sure, refers to it in exalted terms and says that it is above all praise and that there are as many mysteries in it as words. Still, Jerome cannot prove this at all, and his praise at numerous places is too generous.

Finally, let everyone think of it as his own spirit leads him. My spirit cannot accommodate itself to this book. For me this is reason enough not to think highly of it: Christ is neither taught nor known in it. But to teach Christ, this is the thing which an apostle is bound above all else to do; as Christ says in Acts 1:8, “You shall be my witnesses.” Therefore I stick to the books which present Christ to me clearly and purely.

Romans 8 teaches Christ, and so I keep it. The hellfire and damnation stuff? Jesus did say some fire and brimstone speeches, but they were always tempered with the idea that sinners were forgiven. I concur with Luther.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 18 May, 2022 07:22 pm
@Theo202,
See? You don't pay attention. I've said you use too many verses without context. And you do. You make one of the most beautiful things ever written and rip it apart and quote bits and pieces like throwing darts - like you're playing UNO with the inspired word of G*D.

As for missed points, you haven't made any points. More sophistry. One of these days you'll have to put out and your natural talents such as they are, are going to fail.
Theo202
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 07:47 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
In other words, you're just posturing, pretending to know what you're talking about.
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Wed 18 May, 2022 08:37 pm
@Theo202,
Shame on you.
Theo202
 
  -2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 09:17 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Your'e too vain to admit it. Vain like Paul.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Thu 19 May, 2022 08:40 am
@Theo202,
Here you are, trying to get another thread locked because you've run low on responses.

You've yet to prove that Paul was caught in any lie. In fact, the only liars in Acts were the Jews, trumping up charges against him, which wound up sending him all rhe way to Rome to testify. When did Paul lie?
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Thu 19 May, 2022 10:35 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Bulma,
Why stop at John 3:17? John 3:18 says that those who do not accept Jesus are condemned already.
NealNealNeal
 
  -2  
Thu 19 May, 2022 10:43 am
@bulmabriefs144,
In Galatians isn't Paul writing about heresies that say that one needs to work for salvation? John had not been given this revelation at the time Galatians was written.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Thu 19 May, 2022 10:53 am
@bulmabriefs144,
It is true that we ALL deserve to go to hell. However, Jesus' death on the cross and resurrection provided the way for a person to be saved and have a personal relationship with God.
Those who do not accept the gift that Jesus offers are still condemned.
 

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