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Atheism speak your mind about religion

 
 
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 08:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
What reason do I have to lie? What I said was true and that is my personal opinion on the matter, though not how I view it.

Even if you know the basic story line of the bible you would realise that it's out of context. Out of context is generally defined as: A logical fallacy and type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning. Before I specify an answer, do you know why there is a new and old testament with the Bible?
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 08:24 pm
@Arella Mae,
I will admit that you make me feel as if I am walking on pins and needles not trying to offend you! I feel as though I could be as honest as I could possibly be and spend a enormous amount of time with you and not get very far because you do not seem to be willing to answer the questions that I asked.

I will not give you answers but I will give you questions in hopes that you would at least consider them!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 08:25 pm
@Chights47,
I do not know your answer to your question please share it with me.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 08:34 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

I will admit that you make me feel as if I am walking on pins and needles not trying to offend you! I feel as though I could be as honest as I could possibly be and spend a enormous amount of time with you and not get very far because you do not seem to be willing to answer the questions that I asked.

I will not give you answers but I will give you questions in hopes that you would at least consider them!
I did answer you. No one is a Christian, Muslim, etc. at birth.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 08:38 pm
@Arella Mae,
I am sorry I must have misunderstood you because I thought that you included atheist in that statement the first time you wrote it!
Just to make sure that I understand you correctly are you saying that you were born an atheist?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 02:56 am
@Arella Mae,
That's where you're wrong. Everyone is born an atheist. No newly born infant yet has the language skills to be indoctrinated--you have to wait a few years to begin terrorizing children with Hell and death (the stick) before offering them Jesus (the carrot) or whatever other delusion you're peddling.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 04:57 am
@Setanta,
I found the link that you shared to be very good work but I am not sure how correct it is but it does bring forth info to be peer reviewed and that is what I find interesting.

I see that we continue to this day to have every type of behavior that I am aware of that was being exhibited in the past.

I find it interesting that apes will go into neighboring territories and kill all the males and it seems that humans did and somewhat continue the same thing from my readings of the bible!

The men would take the women and make them sex slaves so to speak! Genes seem to have many ways to be carried on but I can see where it would be beneficial to be altruistic if you can not take by force what you want!
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 05:40 am

Engineering Friendship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Wt5xvLzF0&feature=channel_video_title
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 07:40 am
@Setanta,
I believe that a small correction is in order with that. You are correct that a new born cannot be indoctinated, but neither can they be an atheist for they would have to have knowledge of religion in order to be against it. They don't have any ideals what-so-ever because they have no knowledge of the world to either agree or disagree with.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 10:10 am
@Chights47,
One huge correction for you, there, Bubba. Atheist just means without god, it doesn't mean anti-religion.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 11:37 am
@reasoning logic,
I am not going to argue with you or anyone else about whether you are born anything. reasoning, I am not trying to be mean with this statement but you are being pretty transparent and you are doing what I call Atheism 101. There's like 101 things you can bring up to ask me that you think should disprove there is God. Don't worry, some Christians, well, lots of them really, have theirs too. There's the Trinity101, Oneness101, etc, etc. I get irritated with them as well. It seems more like an "I'm trying to trick you into thinking you really don't believe" kind of thing and I hate that. I hate it because I used to be guilty of doing it myself.

I am a believer and I don't see that changing. You will bring up questions that my only answer can be "because God said so in the bible" but that will not be good enough for you as it is not good enough for many others. But, it is more than enough for me.

You seem like a nice enough person and I really didn't mean to put you on pins and needles. I really don't like profanity. I talk to lots of non-believers on this site and most of them I really enjoy talking to. I apologize for putting you on pins and needles.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 12:47 pm
@Setanta,
Yeah...sorry to say it, but you are actually incorrect. I've learned over the years to actually research my answers completely before I start spouting things out...you should learn from this.

Atheism: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism

It states that the definition of Atheism is:
1) A disbelief in the existence of deity
2) The doctrine that there is no deity

Just in case you decide to interpret the first definition incorrectly, you first have to know what it is believed, before you can disbelieve it. Ignorance doesn't qualify as disbelieving. The specific meaning of "disbelieve" is locate here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disbelieve

Here are other sources in case you think I'm "cherry picking" specific sites:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist
http://www.answers.com/topic/atheist
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/atheist
And the lists continues.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 12:59 pm
@Chights47,
None of that justifies a claim that atheism is anti-religion, so your bullshit is not supported by your sources. You also ignore that your souces define an atheist as someone who denies or disbelives in a deity. That pesky little conjunction "or" bites you in the ass. By your own description (as well as mine) an infant cannot believe in a deity, and therefore is a disbeliever. So, as is so often the case, you are wrong, but can't admit it.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 01:21 pm
@Setanta,
You obviously didn't read my post. I actually knew that you would go there and I also gave this source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disbelieve As to the actually definition of "disbelieve". It means: to hold not worthy of belief OR to withhold or reject belief. I didn't say that Atheism was anti religion, it's just the rejection of religion. Atheism is basically rejecting the idea that you believe in a deity. If you don't know any deities or anything about them, then how can you reject them?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 01:32 pm
@Chights47,
Fine . . . infants withhold belief for the simple reason that they are incapable of it. However, you did indeed claim that atheism is anti-religion, and are now attempting to avoid the inferential claim you made in the post to which i objected, the entire text of which can be read below:

Chights47 wrote:
I believe that a small correction is in order with that. You are correct that a new born cannot be indoctinated, but neither can they be an atheist for they would have to have knowledge of religion in order to be against it. They don't have any ideals what-so-ever because they have no knowledge of the world to either agree or disagree with. (emphasis added)


Therefore, you claim that an atheist must be against religion. None of your nifty definitions here make that claim.

The fact that you acknowledge that they cannot agree or disagree with any ideal means that they are non-believers by default.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 01:33 pm
@Chights47,
actually, not to discount Merriam or anything, but the prefix a- means without

http://www.visualthesaurus.com/wordlists/3011 (see second entry = atheist)
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 02:13 pm
Some more on defining atheism

Quote:
The technical problems of defining "atheism" may be divided into two categories: (1) etymological and (2) epistemological. (For the purpose of this discussion, I shall accept the common definition of "theism" as "belief in a god or gods.")

1. It is sometimes claimed that the chief etymological problem in defining "atheism" is how to construe the prefix "a." Should we regard it as a term of privation meaning "without," or should we regard it as a term of negation meaning "no"?

If we choose the privative meaning of "without," then "a-theism" will mean "without-theism" -- i.e., "without (or lacking) belief in a god or gods." This clearly supports the definition of atheism as the absence of theistic belief.

What if we construe the prefix "a" negatively to mean "no"? This has been preferred by those who wish to define atheism as the outright denial of God's existence. But consider: even the negative sense of "a" doesn't, by itself, give us this definition. "A-theism," with the negative "a," translates into "no-belief in a god or gods." Here again, we have an essentially privative definition -- atheism as the absence of theistic belief.

I suggest, therefore, that the real problem in defining "atheism" lies, not in the meaning of the prefix "a," but in determining precisely where that prefix should be inserted.

Atheism as outright denial can be achieved only if the negative "a" is used, not to qualify the entire meaning of "theism," but only part of it -- i.e., "a-theism" means "belief in no god or gods." In this interpretation, atheism is construed, not as the absence of a belief, but as a particular kind of belief. A bunch more stuff here...
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 05:08 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

I am not going to argue with you or anyone else about whether you are born anything. reasoning, I am not trying to be mean with this statement but you are being pretty transparent and you are doing what I call Atheism 101. There's like 101 things you can bring up to ask me that you think should disprove there is God. Don't worry, some Christians, well, lots of them really, have theirs too. There's the Trinity101, Oneness101, etc, etc. I get irritated with them as well. It seems more like an "I'm trying to trick you into thinking you really don't believe" kind of thing and I hate that. I hate it because I used to be guilty of doing it myself.

I am a believer and I don't see that changing. You will bring up questions that my only answer can be "because God said so in the bible" but that will not be good enough for you as it is not good enough for many others. But, it is more than enough for me.

You seem like a nice enough person and I really didn't mean to put you on pins and needles. I really don't like profanity. I talk to lots of non-believers on this site and most of them I really enjoy talking to. I apologize for putting you on pins and needles.



What I am trying to share with you are questions to be considered not answers to my questions, "you have your own answers! I have no answers so I have nothing to argue about!
I can stay away from your theology and your beliefs with my questions as they do not have to be about you and your beliefs but about others that you think are wrong in there understanding of reality!
It does not even have to be about religion we can leave religion out of it if you would like.
What I am interested in is what you think about others and if you are able to apply your answers {your reasoning or logic} to your own understanding of reality.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 05:09 pm
@reasoning logic,
I seriously have no clue as to what any of that is supposed to mean.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 05:16 pm
@Arella Mae,
To be honest with you I would say the same thing if someone proposed the same reply to me!
Some times things can be so complicated to the person sharing information that there is no simple, fast and clear way to explain so I would have to take it one step at a time!
 

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